Roy's Red Sea Max C-250
- Thread starter Roy Page
- Start date
To try both (remove sponges & increase WC amount) might be a better plan since you are dealing with Cyano right now.
Having no cyano visible even if you won't know which helped the most to lower your nitrates would be great. I just hate that red stuff
@Koestby I think as long as you are changing it out when it looks dirty...it benefits your tank. It would only be bad if you put it in & never changed it out. When you toss it out, you are ridding your tank of nitrate causing substances that it catches.
Having no cyano visible even if you won't know which helped the most to lower your nitrates would be great. I just hate that red stuff
@Koestby I think as long as you are changing it out when it looks dirty...it benefits your tank. It would only be bad if you put it in & never changed it out. When you toss it out, you are ridding your tank of nitrate causing substances that it catches.
Roy Page
Active Member
Glenn,
Your notes makes some sense, thanks very much.
So assuming your comments are essentially in the correct direction they raise another serious question ....
So, in a RedSea Max C-250 the 'all in one' filtration system comprises, the Skimmer, Media in the Media rack and whatever Live Rock and Live Sand the owner chooses to use.
So why do RedSea [the experts] supply the black sponges?
Again assuming you are essentially correct, it also means that any additional form of anaerobic filtration introduced, such as a sump with bio balls or other media would also generate excess Nitrate. No?
I am currently taking the needed video footage to show the good, bad and the ugly points of a total amateur starting up and running the C-250 over the last 12 months.
I will have to hold fire on publishing this video until I have finished the experiment of "no black sponges" started today.
It would be nice if RedSea would chime in and give us us their wisdom on why they supply the black sponges and why they should be left in so that they can continue to serve their intended purpose. No?
Roy
Pat24601
Well-Known Member
Roy,
My understanding is that Red Sea supplies the sponges purely for pump protection. They aren't intended for mechanical filtration at all. Just to stop stuff from getting in the pump and harming them.
I'll see if I can't find that post...
EDIT: Just editing this post to say two posts down from here I show some articles from Red Sea on what I could find regarding sponges. While pump protection seems to be their strong emphasis, I didn't see anything on "aren't intended for mechanical filtration" at all. They may have intended them to help filter large detritus. It "feels" like their focus is pump protection though and perhaps specially to avoid customer complaints about inoperative pumps.
Patrick
My understanding is that Red Sea supplies the sponges purely for pump protection. They aren't intended for mechanical filtration at all. Just to stop stuff from getting in the pump and harming them.
I'll see if I can't find that post...
EDIT: Just editing this post to say two posts down from here I show some articles from Red Sea on what I could find regarding sponges. While pump protection seems to be their strong emphasis, I didn't see anything on "aren't intended for mechanical filtration" at all. They may have intended them to help filter large detritus. It "feels" like their focus is pump protection though and perhaps specially to avoid customer complaints about inoperative pumps.
Patrick
Last edited:
Roy Page
Active Member
Pat24601
Well-Known Member
You know, I feel less sure of this than I did 15 minutes ago. This is one thread I was thinking of. There are others where they talk about pump protection as well. But, I guess this one at least doesn't say its the only reason. I'll look more later. I really thought I remembered that.
RS Max C250: Filter sponges cleaning
Another thread of them talking about pump protection. I can't find a post that directly says it, but this is what most of the posts I read talk about...pump protection. From the point of view of customer complaints, I can see why.
RSM 250 Fine Filter Cartridge
This one does talk about about mechanical filtration specifically as related to micro bubbles:
Irene's RSM 250C
Regardless, I agree with removing them for the reasons I've said on other threads. Its a difficult to truly clean nitrate factory and I'm less concerned about pump protection than Red Sea is, but I understand why they are. I wouldn't want those customer calls about expensive broken pumps if I were them either.
I think my system is running better and cleaner without them.
RS Max C250: Filter sponges cleaning
Another thread of them talking about pump protection. I can't find a post that directly says it, but this is what most of the posts I read talk about...pump protection. From the point of view of customer complaints, I can see why.
RSM 250 Fine Filter Cartridge
This one does talk about about mechanical filtration specifically as related to micro bubbles:
Irene's RSM 250C
Regardless, I agree with removing them for the reasons I've said on other threads. Its a difficult to truly clean nitrate factory and I'm less concerned about pump protection than Red Sea is, but I understand why they are. I wouldn't want those customer calls about expensive broken pumps if I were them either.
I think my system is running better and cleaner without them.
Last edited:
Roy Page
Active Member
I am stuck with an Engineers mind, and making 2 changes at the same time does not allow a proper understanding of the affect of each of the changes made. So I will delay making a change to the weekly WC amount until I have run my "no sponges" experiment for about a month.
Certainly increasing the amount of the weekly water change will be beneficial.
With the 5 gall [10%] water change I am diluting the Nitrate value from around 5.0ppm to 4.5ppm.
A 10 gall [20%] water change would dilute the amount of Nitrate down to 4.0ppm
In the short term I want it down to <2.5ppm and in the long term <1ppm
I know .... I know ... I have too many fish .......
Roy
Roy Page
Active Member
I am glad you bought up the question of lighting and how many hours per day. This is a good time to review that subject.
I designed and positioned the house such that every wall that faced the sun was full of windows.
On a sunny Winters day, the whole house is up to 75°F by 10AM without any heating at all.
Of course that light now works against us having installed a marine tank almost a year ago.
We keep some blinds down until noon keeping direct sunlight off the tank.
The tank lights come on at 1pm and switch off at 9pm 7 days a week giving us 8 hours a day of T5 lighting.
How many hours are your T5 lights on?
Roy
Roy Page
Active Member
Thanks for the info!
It is hard to compare T5 with LED's which are ramped up and down.
I really wish that RedSea would provide a proper LED upgrade kit for the C-250.
There are kits from others but they all require you to gut the hood rather than a simple plug and play LED upgrade.
Roy
Pat24601
Well-Known Member
I hear this!
I've finally decided to bite the bullet and do Steve's LEDs, but even knowing what to buy there isn't easy. I have a whole other thread on what spectrum to buy and at the end of the day, since I can't actually see what I'm buying, the decision is basically based on pictures that may or may not be what it really looks like in person (and that's after a lot of research to find those pictures) and on other people's recommendations of what *they* like, which may or may not be what *I* like. Very strange and expensive decision buying process.
Then there is in the install which I will have to go through and is almost uniformly described as highly painful.
The thing is, Red Sea has not announced any intent to support our model tanks with LEDs ever. Let alone with a closed hood (which their demo was open hood). A closed hood is critical to me. Let alone anytime in our near term lifetime.
So, it's either bite the bullet or put a whole lot of hope that Red Sea develops something they have never even announced an intent to develop.
We will see...
Roy Page
Active Member
RedSea do appear to be missing a market, but maybe they have a different agenda.
With the machinery my company makes we do Core Exchange Units.
We send the customer a major assembly portion of a machine which has been re-manufactured and upgraded with the latest design features. A quick swap and the customer sends us back the old worn out assembly. We then re-manufacture the returned units.
Now RedSea could do the same and do a complete Core Exchange Hood with LED's fitted.
Pull it out of the box, exchange your existing hood with a hood with LED's and put your old hood in the box and call UPS to collect. How simple.
I wonder how many 250's/C-250 are out there?
How much are we prepared to pay?
Roy
Roy
Roy Page
Active Member
Update on The Black Sponges.
I removed them 5 weeks ago and I must be honest and say that my Nitrate level has dropped to half what it was.
However, there is now nothing in the system to catch any water borne solids in the complete system. So I am not entirely happy to run this way. I will see what happens over the next month or so.
I removed them 5 weeks ago and I must be honest and say that my Nitrate level has dropped to half what it was.
However, there is now nothing in the system to catch any water borne solids in the complete system. So I am not entirely happy to run this way. I will see what happens over the next month or so.
Pat24601
Well-Known Member
I use filter floss in my media rack. I'm not sure how much good it's doing because it's hardly covering all the flow, but it definitely gets quite dirty so it's doing something. Plus, super easy to clean because I just throw it out and replace it twice a week.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B50UPE0/?tag=reefsanc-20
Pat24601
Well-Known Member
Thanks so much for your series of videos Roy. I will forever be grateful that your 1st video popped up on youtube for me the night before I took my C-250 out of the box. Your tank looks great
I couldn't agree with this more. The videos are awesome and clearly impact a lot of people!
newo11
Well-Known Member
Roy -
Can I strongly recommend that you add at least a small part of the black sponge back? I don't have the C, only the older 250. But I now cut my sponges in 1/3 to 1/4 to at least provide some protection. I used to operate without any of the black sponges until this happened:
Can I strongly recommend that you add at least a small part of the black sponge back? I don't have the C, only the older 250. But I now cut my sponges in 1/3 to 1/4 to at least provide some protection. I used to operate without any of the black sponges until this happened: