Revisitng "Jaubert Method" reefkeeping

[Oxylebius]

Did anyone catch the blog post on Advanced Aquarist a few days ago? Revisiting "Jaubert Method" reefkeeping

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/revisitng-jaubert-method-reefkeeping
And an older article: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/9/aafeature

I run a pretty natural tank, but wouldn't think of getting rid of my protein skimmer. I run a protein skimmer and have a bag of carbon in the tank. Done. Sand, live rock, chiller, lights, pumps, heater, ATO, and water changes. That's it.

I've run protein skimmers on marine tanks since the 90s. Over the years I have run wet/dry systems, bioballs, canisters, refuguims, but right now I couldn't image adding any of these to my tank.

Paulb runs a reverse undergravel filter.....and swears by it.

Thoughts? Discussion encouraged.
What works for you and how long has your tank been running (this is key)?
Anyone trying this out - no protein skimmer?

 

[Akshay]

Hey Oxy... tats wat am experimenting on now with the sps tank.
No skimmer system for sps.... but it cant be a full natural system as sps growth will need Ca etc..

But ya rgt now trying to run it on the following....
Chiller (temp)
Wave Maker (water motion)
Phosgaurd (PO4 removal)
Purigen (N removal)
LED Lights

 

[swissgaurd]

I ran a plenum system for many years, worked like a charm.but I did use a protein skimmer
always had zero nitrates and phosphates.was a mixed reef.

 

[Steve L]

I have three tanks (30, 75 and 150 reefs) and all run on HOB skimmers only with no other filtration other than live rock/sand. Just monthly water changes, and adequate clean up crews. No problems here.

 

[forestal]

I had a 125 with deep sand bed no skimmer did weekly wc for export and did well for almost 5 years but cutting back on wc when life got In the way messed the tank up and/or my heavy feeding caught up to me

 

[Creekview]

I'm running a 55 with a 1" plenum, 4-6" DSB, 120 lbs live rock, and an up flow algae scrubber in a modified refugium. The plenum uses old school air stone bubble lifts. The stock was originally in a 40 breeder which developed a leak. The stock was transferred to the 55, and I installed the plenum during the setup. Been up for a year now. This is the most stable tank I've ever owned. I just went through two boxes of very expensive crap I've bought over the years. Fluidized sand beds, canister filters, skimmers, dry sumps, thousands of dollars worth of stuff that sort of worked if you fiddled with them but not too much. I can feed as much as I like, and it never goes out of spec. I've done one 20% water change in a year. Top off is with RODI. I supplement with iron, manganese, strontium and iodide, a little coral-vite every couple weeks. All my corals are softies, and they grow like weeds. A light upgrade to LED's will come soon, so I'll be adding some SPS and LPS as I can afford them. Lots of life in the water, as well as a pod population that easily supports a fat scooter blenny and an even fatter mandarin dragonet. I would never, ever go back to Berlin or any other equipment intensive setup.

 

[DaveK]

At one time the Jaubert Method of using a plenum under a DSB was the "hot item". It has been generally discredited today. It's not going to hurt anything, but it really doesn't offer much in the way of advantages.

The article "Revisitng "Jaubert Method" reefkeeping" should be considered a load of [expletive deleted]. Statements that are just not true such as "But before the protein skimmer's rise to prominence, methods like the Jaubert system were used to maintain water quality in captive reefs" are simply false. Skimmers, and for that matter berlin type systems pre-date the Jaubert Method by many years.

Yes, people do have good reef systems using the Jaubert Method, but it's more the case of the method not doing much, and the system being supported by the other filtration methods. Not in the example tank that in addition to the plenum it's got a DSB, about 60 pounds of live rock, a refugium, and mangroves. If you could take away the plenum, without disturning the DSB, the system would continue to work just fine.

Now the second article is better. It does go into the original thinking behind the Jaubert Method. If you want to try one out for yourself, you can use that as a guide. However, I recommend you save yourself the time and effort.

As for PaulB's system of using reverse flow undergravel filters, this system works very well for him. However, before you go out and use that method, consider that PaulB is an extremely experienced SW reef keeper, and that his system has been set up for a very long time. if you have that sort of experience, you to could get excellent results out of a system like his, but for most of us, we are a lot better off using more modern methods.

Years ago, I actually did use a reverse flow undergravel filter system, and it did find it worked fairly well. Later on I upgraded it to use a trickle filter. Trickle filters are considered just about obsolete by todays standards, but it made a quantum difference in water quality in my system, especially with gas exchange and the ammonia --> nitrite --> nitrate process.

Lastly, the SW hobby tends to run through fads, and methods or equipment that is considered the "be all end all" today can often be considered obsolete and even incorrect in a few years. Generally it's best to stick to equipment and methods that are in general use. If you do see that new product or method, don't rush right into it, unless it will be critical to the success of your system.

 

[Mike Johnson]

That was very well written, from a knowledgeable saltwater keeper; it reflects many of my beliefs.

 

[Paul B]

Paulb runs a reverse undergravel filter.....and swears by it.

Sometimes I swear near it and sometimes in back of it. As for Jaubert, That is new wave for me as I remember when he invented the thing. It was the rave for me and the 8 other salt water aquarists in the US at the time. Skimmers have been here since the early 70s as I had a Sanders counter current skimmer on my first tank. It worked very well but there was only one size and it was green. I immediately copied it and built a whole slew of skimmers after that. I love the "technology" behind skimmers as they are natural, not adding anything to the water and not costing anything to maintain.
It is true that I run a RUGF, state of the art in the 70s and the only system that pre dates it is a regular UG filter.
I see here and other threads all the time that it was replaced by more "efficient" systems, but can you point to a more efficient system that lasts as long? Please don't say DSB.
The Jaubert method may have been a system that did nothing and a RUGF system may do the same thing. But maybe that is what this hobby is missing, something that just sits there and doesn't do any good, "but" also doesn't do any harm. We could use a Government like that. Just sit there and don't do anything, good or bad and we would be a lot better off. That is what I want for my tank.
Robert Straughn (The Father of Salt Water Fish Keeping) admired the benefit of live rock. But he didn't think anything of the bacteria on the rock, instead he thought the rock was only helpful if it has aiptasia anemones on it. He didn't know why and he called it "anenome rock" but he knew that when he filled a tank with "anemone rock" it was a much healthier tank than the regular tanks of his day which was in the fiftees.
I also saw wet drys come and go, but a wet dry is a very efficient and natural system. They just need another part added to them to reduce nitrate but then it gets a little complicated. They are still the best thing for a fish only, especially a predator tank.
I think many people today forget that it is the bacteria that runs our tank, not us. We are just there to give the bacteria something to make fun of but they keep the tank stable, not chemicals or reactors. And like a skimmer, they do it for free, another thing the Government should do as long as they are not helping.
Remember, running a system for 5 or 10 years is not that big a deal, virtually all the animals we keep except seahorses live longer than that, my hermit crabs lived to 12.
Just my opinions of course, and I may be Senile.

 

[StirCrayzy]

If so, I rejoice in your senility Paul.

I'm finally updated my setup now after 14 yrs of fiddling with different hangons, and a canister, but never any reactors or chemicals. Two things have remained constant, a 2"sand bed and Live Rock. About 9 yrs ago I've somehow found a canister that is NOT the preverbial "nitrate factory" and it maintained 5-15ppm nitrate with only monthly 25% water changes, and maybe a biannual rinsing of the canister media. This grew a couple anemones, and LPS quite well for many years, in which I've tried skimming and not, and didn't notice much difference in growth or PE either way.
Since learning of turf scrubbers ( and Paul's algae trough) I knew that was the next logical step to naturally completing the nitrogen cycle.
So my new setup only has a couple socks, waterfall ATS, 3" sand, and My original LR (plus a FEW lbs )
I don't know what category that puts me in, but hopefully it works well enough to make the leap to SPS.

 

[Paul B]

I don't know what category that puts me in, but hopefully it works well enough to make the leap to SPS.

Don't worry about category. I still have 2 Fluval's under my work bench that I am trying to figure out what to do with. My Wet Dry became an evaporative chiller and I removed my experimental bio pellet reactor to make into something else. I am not sure if it will become a toaster, can opener or IPad. I also don't know what category I am in as I am the only one in it. My tank is kind of a New York City garbage dump biotope.

 

[Brewski]

In regards to the jaubert method. I am a sw for for a while and my first tank was 55 gal with 4" DSB and 50 lbs LR with protien skimmer. Tank was a water change requirement environment with 10-20% weekly and still high nitrates -55 gal FOLWR.

Hurricane Isbell killed everything due to lost power for two weeks. Restarted with jaubert using new unseeded 4" DSB, 1/2" anerobic and same rock - reseeded with a 5 lb piece of LR and 1 lb of live sand. Same tank, more animals, more bioload and 0 nitrates since.

Now i have a 155 with 5" DSB sloped from back to front, anerobic same, skimmer same, sump system using orig 55 with 4-5" water, a tupperwear box for main tank flow control, tupperwear refugium with some sand and cheato and 0 nitrates - total cost of system is pumps, pipes, powerheads and a UV filter for parasite control. Added refugium and sump to acclimate animals without being in main tank, and to dump nutrients. Nitrates last time i checked - 0

 

[Brewski]

In regards to the jaubert method. I am a sw for for a while and my first tank was 55 gal with 4" DSB and 50 lbs LR with protien skimmer. Tank was a water change requirement environment with 10-20% weekly and still high nitrates -55 gal FOLWR.

Hurricane Isbell killed everything due to lost power for two weeks. Restarted with jaubert using new unseeded 4" DSB, 1/2" anerobic and same rock - reseeded with a 5 lb piece of LR and 1 lb of live sand. Same tank, more animals, more bioload and 0 nitrates since.

Now i have a 155 with 5" DSB sloped from back to front, anerobic same, skimmer same, sump system using orig 55 with 4-5" water, a tupperwear box for main tank flow control, tupperwear refugium with some sand and cheato and 0 nitrates - total cost of system is pumps, pipes, powerheads and a UV filter for parasite control. Added refugium and sump to acclimate animals without being in main tank, and to dump nutrients. Nitrates last time i checked - 0

Point is - it works, was super cheap to setup, and zero maintainence. It may not be the be all but at $15.00 for 1/2" tubing and egg crate, its a no brainer.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

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