Removing my socks

[Basile]

I'm in a bit of a dilema here . My tank , mainly softies with a bioload of heavy filter feeders like gorgonians, i have an NPS zone dedicated to them, clams, a crinoid and soon a basket seastar that needs an owner fast because my tank seems the only one with a hight enough nutrient rich to host her.

My 150 G main tank is fed by gravity with a 75G display refugium. I dose supplements every day for my macroalgaes and my filter feeders. My nitrates are at 5ppm and phosphates at 0.5 which is normal for and desirable with a refugium of that size otherwise your macro wont survive long.

So with the arrival of a basket seastar that complicate things. A crinoid was hard enough, but a basket seastar.

Biology/Natural History: One of the largest known ophiuroids, it can have a diameter of up to half a meter. It feeds on suspended particles by spreading its rays out like a fan, oriented mostly perpendicular to the current. Macroscopic zooplankton such as copepods, chaetognaths, and jellyfish are caught by microscopic hooks on the rays. The fine branchlet tips (see picture) then curl around the object and slowly move it toward the mouth (exact method is unclear). The prey of basket star species is said to range up to 3 cm (just over an inch) in size, and most basket stars capture prey mainly at night but may retain their prey until daytime to actually feed on them. Mucus may also help to immobilize prey. This species has also been reported to feed on the small benthic sea pen Stylatula elongata.

This species seems to have a strong co-occurrence with the soft coral Gersemia rubiformis. In Puget Sound, Gorgonocephalus juveniles have been reported within the pharynges of Gersemia polyps, where they appear to develop and apparently feed. The young do not leave the Gersemia until their rays are long enough to capture food.

Unlike any other local ophiuroid, the rays of the basket star branch repeatedly dichotomously. The central disk is covered with a loose-fitting skin with a dark brown color between the bases of the rays and a pinkish color, more similar to the ray color, near the ray bases. Actual color may be variable from tan, beige, orange-red, and pink to almost white; but the central disk is usually darker than the rays.


So i'm thinking of removing my socks to give it more chance at grabbing pods and what not, I'll be dosing mysis and spot feeding as well as i would any particular. i just hope its enough. What do you think.



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[sirrealism]

I think if any tank has a chance to keep one long term yours does. I would be careful pulling your socks unless you clean your sump often. I pulled mine and all way great until my sump filled with waist and I ended up with a N03 problem. Check out GlennF he has one.

 

[DaveK]

It the OP were just about anyone else besides Basile, I'd be telling them to forget about the basket star. They are just about impossible to keep. I agree with sirrealism, the system being uses to one that might have a fighting chance of keeping a basket star.

For most other systems removing filter socks is usually not a good idea, and I would not recommend it. However in this case, I would remove the filter socks because an attempt is being made to keep a very difficult animal. Also, replacing filter socks is an easy enough thing to do. I would be on the lookout for any build up of dirt in the substrata or on the rock. The tank may need more maintenance.

If you do find that no filter socks isn't working, you might consider making plastic screen sock, so it will catch only the "big dirt" and let the small stuff pass.

 

[Basile]

Thank guys, i found out about a guy who shop vack his sump every WC he makes , lol so that gave me the push for the trials. My buddy says his nylons are full of captured pods, the very thing i'm hopping will become the stapple food for the basket, as its uses its mucus and sharp claws in its basket to capture these guys at night and consume them during the day. Apparently the basket is not that expensive , and why not nobody wants to pay for something they know they can't kep. I'm sort of angry that permits are given to yank those animals out of the sea. I'm taking this one because the guy knows my tank and i know that if i don't its going to go in a sterile tank where its doomed. This is the pic he sent me she's arriving next week. I missed the call last night and next delivery is next friday.

By the way, you know that i do not touch my sand at all, i mean i don't vacum or syphon at all . So last night i was counting the little nassarius snails so small not much bigger than the sand, i found 110 so far , they're the same color as the sand , so can imagine how many really their is..... it use to take a week to disolve a kelp leaf left at the bottom of the tank. Now 2 days its gone these guys and i imagine pods and critters alike are well and alive in that sand, i nearly lost a gorgonian that fell in my sand. I left it there for the day and it was almost consume to the core when i got back from shopping. So the detritus in that sand doesn't stay long in there let me tell ya. Thats because i've let nature take over that part. Just wanted to share that piece of experience with you guys.

Now i'm affraid to put my fingers in there in case i loose a digital LOL​

 

[mikecc]

I always thought that filter socks main purpose was to keep microbubbles out of the sump?

 

[Basile]

I've taken out the socks this morning to see the affects on the tank, this week before she comes in, i'll see the responce on my crinoid, how she behave. For those who are wondering what a crinoid is; a feather starfish

[video=youtube;0J6xJW9pTs8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J6xJW9pTs8&index=18&list=PLk_Pw-jAYdFfzK1jNhN7rAilGwHaEzvH5[/video]


Feeding
Crinoids feed by filtering small particles of food from the sea water with their feather like arms. The tube feet are covered with a sticky mucus that traps any food that floats past. Once they have caught a particle of food, the tube feet can flick it into the ambulacral groove, where the cilia are able to propel the stream of mucus towards the mouth. Generally speaking, crinoids living in environments with relatively little plankton have longer and more highly branched arms than those living in rich environments.
The mouth descends into a short oesophagus. There is no true stomach, so the oesophagus connects directly to the intestine, which runs in a single loop right around the inside of the calyx. The intestine often includes numerous diverticulae, some of which may be long or branched. The end of the intestine opens into a short muscular rectum. This ascends towards the anus, which projects from a small conical protuberance at the edge of the tegmen.


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[Basile]

Well i found my crinoid still at the same place now for a week now , but this morning she's got her arms extended. Which means she's feeding. According to litterature when in a ball they're resting or protecting themselves, but when fully extended they're feeding and uses the currents to do so.


" Feeding
Crinoids are passive suspension feeders that consume food items captured from surrounding waters, being passive because they don't generate any sort of current themselves. Instead, they let the water bring food to them. However, they can change their location, overall orientation, and arm and pinnule extension to maximize food collection under different environmental conditions. Also note that some species apparently prefer strong currents while others prefer lower to weak currents (Meyer 1982, Meyer et al. 1984, Baumiller 1997).

When feeding, the adhesive podia emerging from the arms and pinnules snare food items, sometimes with the assistance of mucous threads, and then pass them into the grooves that line them. Cilia in the grooves then guide the items to the mouth where they are ingested (Nichols 1960, Byrne & Fontaine 1981, Meyer 1982, Holland et al. 1986).

So, what is it that they eat? Lots of things, with diets being highly variable from species to species. Known food items include: particles of detritus, ciliated protozoans, diatoms, foraminifera, and crustacean zooplankton, as well as several types of eggs, embryos, and larvae, with most all items being in the range of 0.05 to 0.4mm in size (Rutman & Fishelson 1969, West 1978, Meyer 1979 & 1982, La Touche & West 1980, Holland et al. 1991, Fossa & Nilsen 2002, Kitazawa et al. 2007)."

"Behavior
Crinoids typically sit in place with their arms extended to feed. However, as noted above, they can ball up when not feeding by rolling their arms up into tight coils, or by wrapping them around their body. Feather stars can also crawl around by using the cirri on their underside, and as mentioned above, sea lilies can also crawl about using their arms and/or the cirri on their stalks. This allows crinoids to move to a location where the current is suitable for feeding and/or to avoid predation."

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/7/inverts

So imagine my delight this morning. I'll be adding to my dosing suppliment, the following;

-OysterFeast
-Cyclop-eeze
-what ever i can find for filter feeders that will suit them.

I have now all the fauna marin filterfeeders product and sponge foods, in a mix and dosing every hour, so it should do ok . The socks are OFF the the responce of the feather star is encouraging.​

 

[sirrealism]

Glad it seems to be working. Have you checked your sump where your socks were. Are you getting any buildup? I use a shop vac for my sump and it works well but make sure you clean the shop vac when your done. i ruined 2 shop vacs by not cleaning it out. The motor rusts up.

 

[StirCrayzy]

I use a Bucket head for sump vac use, and I always let it be dried and apart, no rusting in a year ish.

I think the biggest danger to running sockless, is damage and buildup at the return pump.

 

[Basile]

I use a Bucket head for sump vac use, and I always let it be dried and apart, no rusting in a year ish.

I think the biggest danger to running sockless, is damage and buildup at the return pump.

I agree but mine has a little bonus, you see the little compartment at the end of the skimmer module, where the tapes are; Its full of rubbles(this picture is before ,i put the rubbles, it was a better shot of it)

and it'll stop any large or small pieces from getting through and by the flex to the next module where the reactors and the return pums are. When i do a large WC both module get empty so i can shop vack with a water vach that i found , its better than shop vack and it doesn't rust , but i'll rince its anyway because of the salt.

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[StirCrayzy]

So, now we need to know about your special water vac !

 

[sirrealism]

Agree with ^^^^^ what is this water vac?

 

[Basile]

Ask and shall receive lol

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pond-Vacuum-Vac-Vaccuum-pool-muck-cleaner-spa-5-gal-cap-koi-fish-water-feature-/391003045797?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b0998ffa5

Their's plenty of other models between $190-250 depending. its worth a pump and its also convenient when you have a mess so why not we're all prone to have one once and a while.

The Pond Vac is one of the newest and most powerful pond vacuums in the industry. This vacuum's 2 H.P. motor can remove dirt particles up to 3/8" in diameter, such as algae, dead plants and leaves.

The Matala Pond Vac also has an on board electronic monitor switch. Once the container is full, the Vacuum automatically turns off. The container empties in 25-30 seconds and course debris can be collected into a sludge collection bag that is included. Works well with ponds up to 3 ft. depth.

More powerful suction than the competing Oase Pondomatic or Pond-Tech brand vaccums!

Specifications:

Hose on Intake: 16' Long.

Hose on Discharge: 8.2' Long.

Max Suction Height: 7 ft.

Warranty: 2 yr.

Dimensions (dia X H): 15" X 20".

Cord Length: 16 ft.

Voltage: 120V. Max Watts: 1400.

I named it R2D4 FOR MY WATER CHAGES TOO.

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[StirCrayzy]

very Nice.! Too rich for my blood though.

 

[Basile]

very Nice.! Too rich for my blood though.

Its less than an MP 40 or a Tunze anything and a hell more usefull with less work for the WC and spils when they happen, no mops no fuss, turn spils into fun for the whole family... how much was that controller again or that skimmer, how much did the insurance go up after the last recovery......plug and play, R2R4 is waiting for YOU!

LOL i could do this for a living......

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[StirCrayzy]

LMAO you definitely could redefine the web review industry dude !

 

[sirrealism]

Great review. I will look into it but for the time being my wet dry vac that has 6HP does the job very well. Just a little story to make you laugh. So i do water changes on my 5 reefs with a brute trash can that i have put on wheels. its pretty easy. Well It was full almost to the rim and I left it in the middle of my living room went to bed and then to work the next day. I was working late when i got a call from my wife saying the house was flooded. I get home and find that somehow the brute was dumped over and now I have 45g of nasty salt water on the floor. When I do water changes a vacuum the sand, crush coral, and bare bottom so this water had a good 2" of nasty waist in the bottom. I have tile everywhere on the first floor of my home and over half of it was covered in salt water and waist. My shop vac got a good work out that night. One bonus is for some reason my grout has not been that clean in a couple years but it looks great now LOL. So I am quite happy with my shop vac.

 

[Basile]

Great review. I will look into it but for the time being my wet dry vac that has 6HP does the job very well. Just a little story to make you laugh. So i do water changes on my 5 reefs with a brute trash can that i have put on wheels. its pretty easy. Well It was full almost to the rim and I left it in the middle of my living room went to bed and then to work the next day. I was working late when i got a call from my wife saying the house was flooded. I get home and find that somehow the brute was dumped over and now I have 45g of nasty salt water on the floor. When I do water changes a vacuum the sand, crush coral, and bare bottom so this water had a good 2" of nasty waist in the bottom. I have tile everywhere on the first floor of my home and over half of it was covered in salt water and waist. My shop vac got a good work out that night. One bonus is for some reason my grout has not been that clean in a couple years but it looks great now LOL. So I am quite happy with my shop vac.

LOL very good . Yes sometimes its those accident that makes us realise certain things and makes us do or advance. Taking my socks out , then thinking on how to clean my sump better i realised this and when you thing of it $ 300 is like a flow pump we put in are tanks for the fish and corals. Its no different expense and its very usefull in the end because its used every week, and in case of emergency your not stuck. That's my logic behing my madness. I don't have a calcium reactor, or a biopellet reactor, or other gizmo , spending on this for convenience and an emergency pump if you will, for me its important since i live in a condo i got neighbors under me lol. It make sense lol.

By the way your grout was cleaned out because its acidic and your waste water was alkaline and remaining on it for so long it did a chemical number on it removing all the dirt it must of foam at one time lol .

 

[StirCrayzy]

I'm using that one next time I spill water.

"Sorry babe, I was just trying to help clean the house for you"

Ha

 

[Basile]

I'm using that one next time I spill water.

"Sorry babe, I was just trying to help clean the house for you"

Ha

Ya nothing says clean like old dead fish poop on the floor, hmmmmmm can't you just smell it .........................its just want to make you reach for the vomit bag; good old gag reflex don't come home without it!!