new to salt and got to ocellaris and they're fighting on the second day Help!!!

[nanoreefing4fun]

to ReefSanctuary, a real Sanctuary of reef forums, with lots of very nice members

Don't worry about the clowns fighting, they will work it out. The lfs is not giving you good advise though if the tank is cycling with live fish as the ammonia can damage them & shorten their lives with permanent internal damage.

Here the basics of cycling and how many proceed...

add a deli shrimp, let it rot for a week or two...

Start testing and watching... the Ammonia will raise then drop, followed by the Nitrites raising and then dropping, then the Nitrates will soar - once the ammonia & nitrites are gone, then do water changes to reduce nitrates.

Ammonia > Nitrite > Nitrate

Tank Cycled - add cuc, 1st coral, 1st fish or pair (wait a month, to add another fish) fish=bioload

If you don't have one... pick up a sw test kit Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Saltwater Liquid Master Test Kit

Tell us more about your LR & any additives the lfs had you add ... if you want some more input on this... and feel free to ask any questions - we all started right where you are & the great members of RS will help you have success - best tip Go Slow & ask here to verify anything the lfs tells you

 

[zack879]

Ok so the clowns are better today and swimming at all depths of the tank instead of just the top. I have 13 lbc of live rock two bags of live sand and I also added the start up bacteria from instant ocean. I don't plan on adding any more fish. Maybe a clean up crew if I can. The rock has been cured already also. Anything else? I also may do a 5 gal qt tank this weekend. That should suffice for my needs I think? Plus I don't have the room

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

In a 40 tank - you are going to want to have 40 to 60 pounds of LR (1 to 1 & 1/2 pounds per gallon) depending on how porous the rock is...

If the rock was truly cured (and this is always the key & very hard to define, as many lfs say it's cured to sell it for more) this may save your fish & all could be fine... your real key here & best advise... is start testing today, to see if the LR is handling your bioload the fish as creating from their waste & checking to see if the LR had die off. The bacteria from instant ocean may be helping too, but start testing !

Being you have the fish in... if you see ammonia you will need to take action. Water changes, add carbon, etc...

You will also need to look into adding more LR, with fish in the tank, again this is going to be tricky, unless you are able to get "cured" LR.

Hope this helps... Here a great :read: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...something-cycling-breaking-new-reef-tank.html

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

Here one more selection of RS tips collected from many post that is gospel and some of the best advise anyone can give a new tank owner.

Be Patient. Ecosystems do not develop over night!
Go Slow, relax and enjoy every step of the process.
Have lots of patience, don't rush it.
Nothing good ever happens fast in a saltwater tank.
Learn the art of GO S-L-O-W!! patience will be your biggest virtue.
Just remember to go slow and do your research
Go slow....slower than you think
The trick is to go slow...
The best advice anyone here has give me is GO SLOW
Rules for Reef tanks 1. Go SLow 2. Go slow 3. GO slow
Nothing happens fast in a salt tank except bad things so go slow
The biggest advice that I could give you is that you should go very slow
Just go slow. Slow, slow, slow is my best advise
Go slow and do things right and your setup will thank you for it later
Remember the number one rule of reefing,,GO SLOW...
Go slow and enjoy..never rush any decisions ever..do nothing on impulse.
Go slow, and during that time, read, and practice the maintenance routines of water changes
A reef tank is like a race car. The faster you go the harder you crash
"gospel" of reef tanks ... go slow...

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...glenns-if-interested-thread-6.html#post913627

 

[zack879]

Ya my local shop has said all this to me. They're very reputable. They've been around for ever it's a family shop who could care less about my money. They want a water sample this Saturday. Maybe I'll see if I can drop one off some time today or Tom morning as well. Should I add more bacterial cultures? I've also got ten lbs of base rock and I'll get a tad more live Saturday as well depending on my levels. The clowns look really great today. Swimming lower in the tank. Using the whole tank not just the corner. Picking at the rock. Still the black one bugs the other a tad but overall much better.

 

[zack879]

It also should be noted I'm not doing a reef tank. Just fish and live rock. Poss some anmemoe and feather dusters. Fyi

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

Here you one more good :read:

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/45723-lees-bio-k-leebca.html

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/29836-mature-aquarium.html

 

[Anselth]

You can set up a 10 gallon QT fairly cheaply. One of those 10 gallon starter kits will work fine, you can use water from the DT to start the QT up. Move the clowns into it while the DT cycles. Normally, you would be at about the right time to add them to the tank (four weeks) when the cycle is complete, but if they were carrying ich (Which doesn't always show), it may have colonized your sand bed. I would suggest keeping them in the QT for 8 weeks while the tank fallows. There's no need to treat them if they don't show symptoms of any illness, this time now is just a precaution. Watch your cycle and run the tank as you would normally when setting a new tank up. Even if you take them back to the LFS, I would keep the tank empty of fish (inverts are fine) for a minimum of 8 weeks now.

Keep on top of your water changes while they're in QT - without bacteria, ammonia can quickly get out of control, especially in a small QT system. A sponge filter will eventually colonize bacteria, but you're going to need to test for ammonia religously and do water changes as often as necessary. As to the fish fighting, it seems to be a normal behavior with juvenile clowns, but if it looks like one is actually hurting the other, you should return one of them. Chances are the aggressor will not change their behavior.

 

[Anselth]

Internets ate my edit. I would go with a larger QT, 10-15 gallons. Without the biological filtration present in a fully set up display, ammonia levels can climb rapidly. More volume dilutes the ammonia.

 

[zack879]

How fast would a fish get ich that just came out of copper water?

 

[Anselth]

They need to be re-exposed to the parasite in order to get it. Were they in copper in the LFS? It seems unlikely that they would be in copper treated water full time, that's expensive, and makes filtration of the stock tanks more difficult. Very few wholesalers and LFS's quarantine and/or treat fish. There's a treatment regimen for ich, just dropping them in copper for a few days isn't usually sufficient.

I'm not saying they even probably have ich. However, the only way to prevent ich (and other parasites) from making your fish sick is to ensure it never gets into your system. Ich needs fish for its lifecycle - it's not going to come in on your live rock and sand. During the 4 weeks or so that your tank cycles, you can be fairly well assured that any that was left will die off, as it only lives 6 weeks or so without a host. So the second part is making sure your fish don't have it, which is where the QT comes in. It can be eliminated in fish fairly quickly through medication if they show signs. however, once exposed, there's no way to treat live rock and sand other than to remove fish so the ich can't complete its life cycle.

 

[lcstorc]

Where did the ich question come from?
Don't worry about the clown aggression
Do worry about the uncycled tank. Just the fact that they think the water tests can wait tells me there is a problem.
When cycling a tank you need to test daily to watch the cycle. When cycling with fish it is even more important. When you see ammonia in the test then you want to immediately treat with Amquel or a similar ammonia de-toxifying product.
Please read the posts you have been given about cycling the tank. We have nothing to gain by giving you incorrect information. The LFS has a lot of money to gain selling you new fish and/or useless products.

 

[fishguy4]

yep. set up the qt, let your tank cycle, and put em back in. nothing too hard

 

[Anselth]

Lynn,

I raised the ich question due to the cycling with fish - I wasn't trying to say that there was a likelihood, but a possibility. I was trying to point out that if the fish are going to come out into QT anyway, might be best to fallow the tank just to ensure nothing remains behind.

 

[zack879]

Well. I brought one of the clowns to the lfs and they do have it. I added Formalin and Malachite Green to my main tank. I realized that was a HORRIBlE idea so I put the carbon back in about two hours later. My qt is up and running but has only half the salt so it's not ready for fish. I hope I didn't ruin my main tank.

 

[zack879]

And yes they were in copper for two weeks at the lfs. They run all their fish tanks w it.

 

[Anselth]

Ooof...I don't know. Formalin is related to formaldehyde...You never want to medicate your DT, however, I don't see that either is copper based, so you may be able to clear it out with carbon. Hopefully somebody else can chime in and help, I have no experience with these meds.

What I would do is pull some of the water out of your DT to fill the QT. This does two things: It will get some of the medication out of your tank, and you can immediately put your fish into the QT, as the salinity and temperature will be the same. Take the water you're mixing for your QT, put it in a bucket or two, and when it's mixed to the right salinity, use it to replace the water you took from the DT. Then Immediately start mixing some change water for the QT and the DT. QT for ammonia reduction, and DT to remove the meds. Change as much at a time in the DT as you can. Don't add any more meds to the DT. **Don't mix the QT water and the DT water, empty the QT first, but save the water to mix to the right salinity.

A few things to keep in mind. You need a heater and a powerhead for mixing change water, the powerhead for obvious reasons, the heater to make sure it's the same temp as what you're changing out. Do you have your own test kits? You need, right now, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate.

Let's slow this down. Seems like you're panicking a little, and I'm sorry because I'm sure I didn't help by giving you more to think about when I did, though it was unintentional. I don't think your fish are in immediate danger, as long as you medicated based on the instructions - but again, I have no experience with the two meds you used and I can't say for certain. Do get your QT running right, match the temp and salinity. Move your fish into the QT. If I'm reading things right and you said they DO have ich, treat them there. Do water changes in your DT and the QT. Monitor your parameters. Make sure you top off with RO water - don't put salt water in unless you take the same amount out first.

While the fish are in QT, read everything you can. Ask questions. Don't panic. Go slow. Don't do anything until you are absolutely sure you're ready to do it. Moving too fast is the worst thing you can do in this hobby - and keeping your fish in QT for a little longer will not be harmful. While you may be worried right now, things will get better. Don't get discouraged.

 

[lbiminiblue]

Hey guys i'm totally new to salt, cycling my 40 breeder and i've got two ocellaris and two hermit crabs. My clowns are fighting big time. I have one black and one regular. the black one is a tad bigger and nipping at the smaller regular one. the smaller one is up at the surface on its side. is this normal or do i need to bring them back tomorrow? if they even friggin survive. they've been fine up until now. got them yesterday

lol i was in this same exact situation...a black ocellaris and a true perc....i put the small one in a fish bag, put circulation holes in it, left him in the tank overnight, and they were fine the next morning.

 

[zack879]

yup totally panicked. But i did put the carbon back in, my amonia levels are considered safe right now and I also had them measured at the LFS today. They're all fine. fish and my hermits are fine in the tank now and I hope I caught it in time. Worst comes to worst I'll add a tad more live rock and sand. just to get the bacteria back in there. as for my quarantine tank it's on my fly tying desk in the basement and it has 2.5 scoops of salt which was all i had left until tomorrow. I did medicate based on the instructions. I'm more concerned about my rock and sand. I'll get the qt up and running by tomorrow I assume. It's got a carbon bag filter in there so i imagine it could support fish once I get my salt levels right. and Ill just add bacteria. i bought a 10 gallon kit so it' sgot a heater and filter. i may see how the fish play out. the LFS said whaever was on the fish is so minute it may not even matter and they could be fine.

 

[zack879]

It also should be noted that it was only in there for like two hours and it was supposed to be a 3 day process. So maybe only 33% of my lR and LS will die, my amonia levels have been good so it should be manageable.