New member

[fishkisser]

Hello All!!
I am in the process of gathering as much CREDIBLE information as possible before setting up a marine aquarium. So far I plan: 350 main tank, 2 100 gal refg's one directly downstream and one upstream of main tank, one 100 gal sump, no protein skimmer, cal reactors.

I look forward to good fellowship, advice and banter!


Fishkisser

 

[Clownfish518]

Welcome to RS!

Sounds like a nice setup. If it were me I would rethink the sump/refugium setup. The theory was that return pumps would shred pods going back into the main tank, and therefore the refugium should be placed upstream from the tank and let gravity supply the main tank with intact pods. In practice, they are tough little buggers and make it through the pumps just fine. There is no technical reason to place it upstream any longer.

One of the "to do's on my list is to setup two tanks connected by a common sump. One tank would be a seagrass tank, the other a reef tank, thereby replicating how nature does it. Would make a nice display I think.

Look forward to chatting

 

[Jeremy0322]

Sounds like a sweet idea! Any reason why no protein skimmer, because depending on what you are planning on keeping in the main tank it may be hard to keep certain things in check

 

[fishkisser]

Welcome to RS!

Sounds like a nice setup. If it were me I would rethink the sump/refugium setup. The theory was that return pumps would shred pods going back into the main tank, and therefore the refugium should be placed upstream from the tank and let gravity supply the main tank with intact pods. In practice, they are tough little buggers and make it through the pumps just fine. There is no technical reason to place it upstream any longer.

One of the "to do's on my list is to setup two tanks connected by a common sump. One tank would be a seagrass tank, the other a reef tank, thereby replicating how nature does it. Would make a nice display I think.

Look forward to chatting

I get confused on the upstream/downstream thing. As a flyfisherman, if you walk against the current you are going upstream, with the current downstream. Anyway, my thought is that the first refuge filling with water coming out of the tank will be mainly devoted to algae scrubbing (it will be very wide and shallow to diffuse the 20/25 turnovers per hour). The second refuge will drain directly into the tank and its main purpose will be microfauna production. I plan to get this system up very slowly to make sure the microfauna, both naturally occuring and "planted" produce good populations. I hope that with very active sand beds (3 in all), and the very wide and relatively shallow algae scrubber protine scimming will not be needed,

 

[fishkisser]

I get confused on the upstream/downstream thing. As a flyfisherman, if you walk against the current you are going upstream, with the current downstream. Anyway, my thought is that the first refuge filling with water coming out of the tank will be mainly devoted to algae scrubbing (it will be very wide and shallow to diffuse the 20/25 turnovers per hour). The second refuge will drain directly into the tank and its main purpose will be microfauna production. I plan to get this system up very slowly to make sure the microfauna, both naturally occuring and "planted" produce good populations. I hope that with very active sand beds (3 in all), and the very wide and relatively shallow algae scrubber protine scimming will not be needed,

I hear you! If I fail to establish natural measures I will be in big trouble!

 

[BigAl07]

Hello and welcome to RS!!!

I'm liking your ideas a lot!! the use (or lack there of) of a Protein Skimmer is going to be directly mandated by the health and size of your filtration system.

I believe if I were you I would probably opt to at least start out with one and then as your "system" matures over time try and ween it off the skimmer. Just my 2 cents.

 

[fishkisser]

Hello and welcome to RS!!!

I'm liking your ideas a lot!! the use (or lack there of) of a Protein Skimmer is going to be directly mandated by the health and size of your filtration system.

I believe if I were you I would probably opt to at least start out with one and then as your "system" matures over time try and ween it off the skimmer. Just my 2 cents.

I need to give your suggestion SERIOUS consideration. it would relieve a lot of concern while populations are being established. Thanks!

 

[Clownfish518]

I don't see any reason to wean it off a skimmer myself. I can understand running a system without one, but IMO they are a big safety net. My skimmers often don't produce anything, because the water is clean; then every once in a while they go nuts. Its like having a parachute; you hope you never need it but you'll be glad you have one if you do.

 

[ReefLady]

I don't see any reason to wean it off a skimmer myself. I can understand running a system without one, but IMO they are a big safety net.

Agree with this 100%. You can have a skimmer, but you do not need to run it all the time, so as not to "overskim", but I'd rather have one there, if needed.
Like Al said, especially while the tank is young - I'd really want this safety net.

 

[lcstorc]

Sounds like this is going to be a fun system. Be sure to post pics.

 

[fishkisser]

Agree with this 100%. You can have a skimmer, but you do not need to run it all the time, so as not to "overskim", but I'd rather have one there, if needed.
Like Al said, especially while the tank is young - I'd really want this safety net.

My primary thought in not using a skimmer was the reduction of microfauna mortality. Clownfish 518 says not to be concerned about pumps hurting them (Id love to know the source of this opinion) but separating them in the waste is definitely fatal even if an air jet skimmer is used. My secondary thought was with 2 - 100 gal refugs, one very wide and shallow with sand bed, one deep with aprox 6 inch sand bed plus 6 inches in main tank: that a slow establishment of all micro and marco populations with live rock but little or no coral and fish for 1st 6 months would eliminate need for skimmimg. This also assumes a very slow addition of fish and coral. Accounting for water displacement I figure the system will hold aprox 500 gal. What do you folks think? Are my assumptions reasonable or am I playin with fire without a skimmer?

 

[ReefLady]

I'd like to hear from people who have kept successful skimmerless thanks. I know it can be done - I know first hand of at least 2 people in the Boston Reef club who had very nice skimmerless tanks - and one was an sps tank.

I do think though, that skimmers remove dissolved organics/waste, whereas macro algae is primarily used for nutrient (nitrate/phosphate) export. While both refugiums and skimmers are beneficial, they do different things.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm thinking that eventually you're going to want corals and fish - a more demanding bioload. Even if you've slowly established your biological filter and microfauna, you're still going to have dissolved organics in your system. You can always minimize this by doing more frequent and larger water changes, but in that size system, I think skimming would be more convenient and less costly than frequent/large water changes.

I've seen refugium setups where the water from the 'fuge is slowly gravity fed to the main tank. The intent was to not pass the water and microfauna through a return pump to the DT.

 

[kiwiman456]

I lack the experience to give an opinion, but I am very interested in your setup.

 

[fishkisser]

Re: To Skim or Not to Skim

ReefLady[/LEFT];658689]I'd like to hear from people who have kept successful

skimmerless​

thanks. I know it can be done - I know first hand of at least 2 people in the Boston Reef club who had very nice

skimmerless​

tanks - and one was an

sps​

tank.

I do think though, that skimmers remove dissolved organics/waste, whereas macro algae is primarily used for nutrient (nitrate/phosphate) export. While both

refugiums​

and skimmers are beneficial, they do different things.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm thinking that eventually you're going to want corals and fish - a more demanding

bioload​

. Even if you've slowly established your biological filter and

microfauna​

, you're still going to have dissolved organics in your system. You can always minimize this by doing more frequent and larger water changes, but in that size system, I think skimming would be more convenient and less costly than frequent/large water changes.

I've seen

refugium​

setups where the water from the '

fuge​

is slowly gravity fed to the main tank. The intent was to not pass the water and

microfauna​

through a return pump to the DT.

I need to do more homework in many areas, two of them being: the chemical poisons corals release to

dissuade​

other corals even if they are from the same

biotope​

(which if not utilized by the system in some manner would strongly indicate the use of a skimmer) and just exactly how much dissolved nutrients are absorbed my micro populations and perhaps even by the corals themselves.

 

[Clownfish518]

I am pretty sure that I read that the pods survive the return pump in Reef Invertebrates by Calfo and Fenner. They have a chapter dedicated to refugiums.

Also my own experience. Tanks with refugiums are just chockablock with pods, the pump doesn't seem to put a dent in them. I have a 40 gallon breeder with a second 40 gallon breeder refugium, and I bet I could go a month without feeding the fish (anemone another matter)

 

[fishkisser]

Re:Sea Grass/Micro Fauna

I am pretty sure that I read that the pods survive the return pump in Reef Invertebrates by Calfo and Fenner. They have a chapter dedicated to refugiums.

Also my own experience. Tanks with refugiums are just chockablock with pods, the pump doesn't seem to put a dent in them. I have a 40 gallon breeder with a second 40 gallon breeder refugium, and I bet I could go a month without feeding the fish (anemone another matter)

Wow! It is no nice to speak with INFORMED folks!! Gives me hope that I may actually be able to encourage good and diverse populations! Have you ever "planted" your refugs with a diverse commercially available population of micro fauna? It is my understanding that if one does so it should be in the early stages of the tank in that runing the tank dark and with a cover is essential for a week or so. (Was reading the link you sent me on seagrass when notification of your post came in! ;=)

 

[Clownfish518]

Re: Sea Grass/Micro Fauna

Wow! It is no nice to speak with INFORMED folks!! Gives me hope that I may actually be able to encourage good and diverse populations! Have you ever "planted" your refugs with a diverse commercially available population of micro fauna? It is my understanding that if one does so it should be in the early stages of the tank in that runing the tank dark and with a cover is essential for a week or so. (Was reading the link you sent me on seagrass when notification of your post came in! ;=)

I ran my tank with completely cured LR (stole them from other tanks here) and the refugium for about 6 weeks before adding fish.

For everyone else, here is the link on seagrasses - very good one I have been mulling over lately

Beyond the Refugium: Seagrass Aquaria by Sarah Lardizabal - Reefkeeping.com

The inspiration for my LTA tank, but I digress