Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

[AndyMan]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Great thread and great concept to introduce to everyone. I built one myself using an old sump and a frame I built. It has been running for over a week now and I am wondering if I should be scraping the screen or leave it until the growth is thick turf algae. It seems that it is currenly only a brown covering with some coraline and green algae. Should I be cleaning it weekly and if so, wont I be slowing down the process to turf algae?

 

[SantaMonica]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

You don't want turf; you want green hair. Clean now, and every 7 days. If you are getting coralline, your flow is too low.

 

[manafreake]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Hi SantaMonica,

I’m a beginner saltwater enthusiast with a 12 jbj nano running for 4 months now and also have a 10 gallon tank that was given to me (running for 2 years). I am having a custom 40 gallon visio tank being made for me and should have it in about a week. I’m trying to figure out what kind of filtration system to use…I’m not using a sump since the tank is being custom made for a large wooden chest with sliding drawers rather than a cabinet….so, no sump. I was thinking of using 2 Eheim liberty 200 hang on filters, but since I will be stocking it with coral and fish…I think that a Eheim filtration canister would be better since I’m using no sump. I stumbled across your Algae scrubber set up and I think it’s great. I am wondering if I could make a small version of your set up using an old marineland hang on filter. I’m thinking…maybe I could replace the filters for a screen and prop a light right over the top of it….and while the filter is running…the water will hit the algae screen and then trickle into the tank. What do you think…can something similar yet simple like this work? I am thinking…if this does work…I can also have the Eheim canister running along with this “hang on algae scrubber”… Any and all advise would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!

Thank you!
John,

 

[SantaMonica]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Unfortunately nobody has made a HOB conversion that has worked yet, so I would not try it. The area in those things is just too confined. Build yourself a little acrylic horizontal unit on top, which drains into the display. Use the ideas in the examples section:

Algae Scrubbers • View topic - Misc Scrubber Designs (newest designs are at the end)

Or for more power in a compact space, and if you are into DIY, use my plans for the twin-screen vertical nano that I'm designing:

Algae Scrubbers • View topic - Now designing: The Santa Monica 25 Nano Scrubber

 

[manafreake]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Thanks...I'll have to look for an acrylic box to mount over my tank and work from there. I'll keep checking back for updates.

 

[SantaMonica]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Finally got a finished acrylic box to work with:

Did a flow test:

YouTube - SantaMonica 25 flow test

Then did a melt test; put the bulb in, and let it set with no water flow for a half hour. No acrylic softening. Then, poured boiling water into the compartments; still ok...

YouTube - SantaMonica 25 boiling water test

 

[niqiri]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Hi there. I've been following this for a while and it looks more and more like it's something I should add to my next tank. I recently got rid of my 75 gallon because the overflow box was causing me too much trouble. Anyway, I was wondering if you had any ideas on how I could plumb one of these into a tank with a built in overflow. I was thinking of teeing off the drain pipes so that one goes to the screen which drains into the fuge and the other goes into the sump. Ideas on this? Also, if I have all 600 gallons going through the megaflow overflow per hour will PVC pipes connected the overflow drain be able to hold themselves up? In other words, when I tee them, it will make the water flow two ways. As the water progresses further out from the tee spot, it will put an increasing amount of pressure on the tee joint. With that much flow, will the joint be at risk of breaking? Thanks.

 

[SantaMonica]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

As for strength of the pipe, just support both ends and you should be fine. And you can always draw a pic and post it in the plumbing section for opinion, and/or ask someone in your local reef club.

As for overflow:

Screen Width-----Gallons Per Hour (GPH)

1" 35
2" 70
3" 105
4" 140
5" 175
6" 210
7" 245
8" 280
9" 315
10" 350
11" 385
12" 420
13" 455
14" 490
15" 525
16" 560
17" 595
18" 630
19" 665
20" 700


If you are doing an overflow feed, the overflow will determine how much flow you have to work with. You have to start from there, and size your screen accordingly. The maximum flow you'll get to the screen will be what's going through your overflow now. This is easy to figure out by counting how many seconds it takes your overflow to fill a one-gallon jug:

60 seconds = 60 gph
30 seconds = 120 gph
15 seconds = 240 gph
10 seconds = 360 gph
8 seconds = 450 gph
5 seconds = 720 gph


Take this gph number that you end up with, and divide by 35, to get the number of inches wide the screen should be. For example, if your overflow was 240 gph, then divide this by 35 to get 6.8 (or just say 7) inches. So your screen should be 7 inches wide.

How tall should the screen it be? That is determined by how much screen area you need, which is determined by how many gallons you have. Try to get one square inch of screen (lit both sides) for every gallon. If lit on only one side, double the screen area.

When finished, this is how you want your flow to look:

 

[AndyMan]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

I have my set up established, mostly brownish red algae forming for the last two weeks now but about double the amount of green clumps of algae forming on the screen. I know you mentioned increasing the flow, how do you recommend doing this. Currently I am using a CPR90 Overflow box and the flow is being restricted by the small opening slot in the tube where the screen attaches to. I had to reduce my return pump significantly with a ball-valve. Would you recommend enlarging the slot for the outflow tube (screen attaches) or would that just cause water splashing our pouring downwards?

 

[SantaMonica]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

HOB's are very tough to work with, as you see. For now, just clean every 3 days until the brown gets lighter. Then every 5 days until green. Then every 7 days.

Can't really tell you what to modify without seeing lots of good pics and flow videos.

 

[AndyMan]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

The slot in the pipe where you insert the screen, would this be a tight fit when inserting the screen, snug fit or loosly inserts into the slot?

 

[SantaMonica]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

For low flow, it should be snug. For high flow, it should be loose.

 

[SantaMonica]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Finally, I have a combination that has some green. Had to up the flow on the one-sided screen from 50 to 75 gph on the one screen (am not currently using the other screen), and reduce the lighting to 16 hours. Bulb is 1 inch (2.54 cm) from the screen. The bulb is setting on the bottom of the box at an angle, and the screen is also at an angle, and that's the reason that the burned-yellow part is at the bottom, and why the waterline is tilted:

(right click and "view image" to see the whole pic)

I cleaned it today, then sanded the clear window to diffuse the light. The bulb is so near to the screen that you are almost able to see the outline of the bulb in the growth. Scattering the light should help a lot; it's just a matter of how much.

To build this at home, you would just attach vinyl tubing to the pipe, and set the screen down evenly inside the box.

 

[niqiri]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Is the ATS a good solution for people who don't have the money for a DI unit or access to purified sea water?

 

[SantaMonica]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

A scrubber does remove most of the "bad" things in tap water, but it is not known yet if they are ALL removed. And what certainly is not known is if they are removed fast enough for you to put tap water right into your tank. Chlorine is definitely NOT removed by scrubbers, but chlorine will evaporate in a day or so if the water is circulated in an open container BEFORE puting it in the tank. Chloramines (chlorine + ammonia), however, are another matter. They are added by some city water systems, and they are not removed by scrubbers (and they do not evaporate). So if you are not using RO or RODI water, you must use an additive to remove chloramines (if your city water has chloramines; ask them). Water from a well should be fine, since no chlorine or chloramines are added.

Some people are experimenting with using tap water instead of RO or RODI, but there are no results yet. A fish-only (no rock, no sand) tank is probably fine, if you have no chloramines, and if you let the water circulate for a day before using it (to remove chlorine). If you have chloramines, you can use an additive to remove the chlorine and chloramines right away, without having to wait a day.

If you have live rock, or live sand, or any corals or inverts at all, then your problem becomes copper. Copper can occur in city water or in wells. Yes a scrubber (i.e., algae) consumes copper, but the question is, will the copper be removed fast enough so that no damage occurs when you add the tap water. Nobody has tested this, so it would be an experiment. For best chances, you'd want an oversize scrubber, with powerful lighting, and strong flow, along with cleaning every 7 days no matter what. The best way would be to start with an new tank, and add your corals or inverts one at a time (cheapest first). This would be a good test for someone to try.

One person has mentioned that you can use Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) to break chloramines into ammonia and chlorine. If this is so, then you could remove the ammonia with a scrubber, and the aeration of the scrubber would remove the chlorine in a day or so. You would have to do this in a holding tank before using it, however. This has not been tested, either.

 

[cccharliecc]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Wow....very informative and interesting article.
I may have to try this out!

 

[SantaMonica]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Nutrients vs. Nutrition

The word "nutrient" and "nutrition" are commonly mixed up when talking about reefs. Skimmers (in this case, air bubbles) only remove nutrition, which is fine if all you have is fish, but skimmers/bubbles have no affect on nutrients. "Nutrients" are Inorganic Nitrate, Inorganic (Ortho) Phosphate, Ammonia, Ammonium, and Nitrite. Matter of fact, if you took a fresh batch of newly made saltwater and put a skimmer in it, then added pure nutrients, the skimmer would not have any skimmate at all. Algae, however, would start growing out of control. If, however, you added nutrition (phyto, plankton, ground up flakes, etc) to that same batch of saltwater, the skimmer would go crazy and remove it all.

 

[SantaMonica]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Scrubber Video:

YouTube - Algal Turf Scrubber _Proven Large Scale Algae Production and Water Treatment Systems

 

[GreatWhiteShark]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Good video, very informative.

 

[niqiri]

Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Anybody have any good ideas for plumbing an ATS into a sump from a 90 gallon tank with left hand side built in overflow? Plans? Thanks.