Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

plecosword

Active Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

this is one of the nicest tanks ive ever seen. maybe its the suroundings that make it look better, i dont know.
UserMudsharkOnMASA-25.jpg
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

I took off the sponge prefilter on my overflow, turned off the canister and left the carbon on. I did this a few days ago and now my water seems to be getting a little cloudy. Nitrates still at 20. Any thoughts?

Let it sit a few days and see what happens. Clean every 7 days.
 

Spurredon

New Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Hello SM.

Read through this whole thread and absolutely fascinating (especially for a beginner like myself).

I am planning on setting up my first tank next year (after I move apartment). I'm going for a 90G and will definitely incorporate an algae scrubber - the acrylic one you have on yours looks the neatest to me.

Just one thing. I read on the FAQ that it will be a problem keeping xenia with a scrubber. I know that xenia feed on the same nutrients that the scrubber are removing (N and P) and are a good nutrient exporter themselves. I really would like to have xenia in my tank (which will contain mostly softies and maybe some lps - no sps corals).

Is there any way around this and are there any other similar corals that will have a hard time when using a scrubber?

Keep on sharing your wisdom SM!
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

You can keep them by feeding much much more. Basically, starting doubling your feeding every week, until they start responding. But stop increasing is nuisance algae forms.
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Update: Best way to rough up your plastic canvas:

ScreenHoleSaw.jpg
 

halmahera

New Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Hi SantaMonica,

I've been using ATS since the first day I start reefing (3 months ago). In fact, your ATS stuff had convinced me to get into this hobby, as many people had high nitrate problem in their SW tank. The LFS guy keep laughing at me for using the ATS, instead of a sulphur reactor.

3 days ago, I measured my Nitrate at 25 mg/l and Phosphate at 0 mg/l, so I feed more frequently, but today Nitrate goes up at 50 mg/l and strangely Phosphate stayed at 0 mg/l.
Will the ATS function properly (still removes N with the absence of P) in this condition ? or should I add more P and how ?
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Without knowing anything about your tank, my first guess would be you have bio balls / wet dry. If so, it's trapping food and causing it to rot, and it's converting the ammonia into extra nitrate, but it's not adding any extra phosphate. This leaves the phosphate to be eaten by the algae.

Correct so far?
 

halmahera

New Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

No bio balls / wet dry here, the water from overflow goes directly to ATS, then goes to a skimmer and fluidized carbon filter, then pumped back to the tank. I drip Calcium and Magnesium too.
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Get a new phosphate test then.
 

jnohs

Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

I cant belive this thread is still going.
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Update: Signs of scrubbers wearing out

Since my acrylic scrubber is approching one year old, it's the first one to experience signs of wearing out. Of course I'm also experimenting with large amounts of continuous feeding (which makes things worse), but I'm still seeing some of the same signs in other peoples' scrubbers, even though they are feeding normal amounts, and even though they've replaced the bulbs every 3 months. This is typically what starts happening:

Glass-cleaning is needed more often

Scrubber starts growing darker algae

pH stays at a lower point

Rocks get a light green covering

Cyano starts showing up

Nitrate and phosphate start staying at higher levels


What is probably happening (and what happened to mine) was that the flow had been greatly reduced to the scrubber. My screen is 22" wide, and only half of it was getting any flow at all (I'm surprised half of it did not die); the other half was still getting some flow, but it was so little that the bottom of the scrubber was almost dry. My problem was the pump:

OldPump.jpg



This is a case of scrubbers causing their own unique problem. When you run a scrubber (without skimmers or mechanical filters), not only do the corals and small fish get much more of the food that you feed, but you will also grow all sorts of filter feeders like the ones you see all over the pump in the picture. They grew all through the display, of course (to be eaten by a wrasse), but they also grew up into the impeller area of the scrubber pump, which was the problem. Also in the pic, you can see the brown stuff which was the result of my experiment in large amounts of continuous feeding in a system with a poorly designed sump (which allowed too much settling). The case/impellor was so locked up that I had to soak it in pure vinegar for several hours to even get it open. So while waiting on that, I opened the Eheim 1262 (900 gph) that I ordered as a backup :) So now my scrubber pump is pumping 2X as much as my return.

Once the new pump was in place, there was a forceful waterfall across the screen again. There is so much water in the acrylic box now that it is 1" deep before it goes out the drain hole (whereas before it was almost dry).

Point is, check your scrubber pump often for internal fan worms or food buildup. Just like the lights, you may not be able to see the lower output (since it happens very slowly over time), so you have to open it up and check. Running the pump in vinegar every three months should keep it clear (vinegar disolves fan worms).
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Tarraza on the AS site: "THANK YOU SM. without this site my tank was a mess. Now I can enjoy this hobby for ever. 8 months now and i forget what NITRATE, PHOSPHATE IS ALL ABOUT, AHH!!, WATER CHANGE? NOT FOR ME ANY MORE!!!!! GOD BLESS YOU GUYS!!!!"

Firestarter on the SG site: "I was rather hesitant to change to an algae scrubber at first and doubted it would really work, as it was too good to be true. Almost 1.5 weeks of converting to the scrubber, I can see such great results! My corals are finally doing better, pods population has almost tripled, and I don't even need to clean the tank glass at all (usually by now it would be covered my a thin film of brown diatoms). Its amazing what the results were. Forget expensive skimmers, denitrators etc, just a good light source and good flow will do. One of the main reasons why I changed to a scrubber was because of my high nitrate reading. When I finally bought a test kit and tested it, the reading was more than 100mg/l and now it has dropped significantly to 25mg/l. Another advantage was that I could skip the skimmer pump which resulted in my water temp dropping 0.5 - 1 deg."

Craig on the NZ site: "My tank water is so clear and clean looking, and the sand is clean.
I have a Dragon Goby and he has gotten fat ever since I moved to the scrubber and removed my skimmer, he moves a heck of a lot of sand. But I stirred up my sand like I occasionally do and this time there was no muck coming out as I stirred it. My [nuisance] algaes in my overflow have receded, and the coraline on the rocks has grown quite quickly over the last few days. Even the water in my sump (even thou there is a bit of crap on the bottom) is clear and clean."

Gannet on the NZ site: "i have gone from cleaning the glass on the front of the tank 2-4 times a week to once every 2 weeks ... my nitrates has gone from 80ppm and is now 0-5ppm ... and the pods and mysis, i have that many in my sump now that i scoop them up with a net and feed them to my fish works a treat."

ImDaring on the LR site: "I built mine [scrubber] because I had to clean my glass every day because of green algae, and then to top it off I had a Brown algae breakout... it had covered the bottom of my sand bed it; looked like slime. the first week of having my scrubber hooked up I only cleaned my glass 1 time, now on my 2nd week I have not had to clean it at all, and the brown algae is almost gone."
 

ScubaDrew

Well-Known Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

I've had a bad time with random spraying from my ATS.

I tried the garbage bag draped over the top of the bar, but still had issues.

I have to admit that my space is limited and the ATS is within 3 inches of the edge of the sump. I'm thinking I'll need to build a more enclosed system to continue to use an ATS.
 
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

I've had a bad time with random spraying from my ATS.

I tried the garbage bag draped over the top of the bar, but still had issues.

I have to admit that my space is limited and the ATS is within 3 inches of the edge of the sump. I'm thinking I'll need to build a more enclosed system to continue to use an ATS.

I have this same issue. My sump is what used to be a huge wet/dry that my brother used to use on his 120 gallon. To top it off it doesn't even fit under my tank because the stand is one of those with the separator in the middle. So for now it's sitting beside my tank out in the open. This causes problems for me because, at night, the light from the scrubber gets into the tank and I have to get creative to block it. I'm going to have to redesign the whole thing so that it can fit under my tank.

One thing that causes the spraying in the ATS, for me, anyway, is nori getting into the overflow and clogging up the spray bar. My powder brown tang attacks the nori so violently that he ends up ripping off big pieces. Sometimes they manage to get up and over the box and down into the overflow. I have to take it apart and use a toothpick to clean out the blockage.

But other than that, the ATS is working great. I'm starting to get real mass on the screen, and my nitrates are right where I want them.

I do have some xenia and I'm a little worried about them because I know they like a little nutrients in the water. I've just been experimenting with feeding more.
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Easiest way to deal with spray (other than re-building) is to put a spray-shield on the pipe:

UserSaltCrittersOnTR-1.jpg


UserGrAhF11onRP-1.jpg


Second easiest is to cut slots:

UserImdaringOnLR-1.jpg


UserHuhhhhhOnMB-02.jpg
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Update: Screens that are too small

This is an example of why a too-small screen can cause problems. The algae gets thick too quick, and the bottom layers die and go back into the water, causing cloudiness and lack of filtering. If you must use a too-small screen, clean it every 3 days instead of 7.

Click here if you can't see pic below
SmallScreens.jpg
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Here are several updates:


Milburnr on the SC site had this great pic of his flow:
UserMilburnrOnSC-4.jpg





Quick review of why scrubbers work:

1. The light is very near the screen, and is not blocked by anything.
2. The flow is very rapid, which transports more nutrients to and from the algae.
3. The flow (on a vertical waterfall) is very thin, which breaks up boundary layer,
and which lets the most light through.
4. 7-day cleanings keeps the bottom layers of algae from being shaded and dying.
5. Using FW to clean, kills the pods that normally destroy the algae.




Seeding a new screen is no longer recommended, because (1) you get good growth in a week anyway, and (2) the seeding just washes off and adds nutrients to the water.


Barbianj on the RS site made a great high-power CFL setup:

BestCFL.jpg





Long vacations: Some people want to use a scrubber, but are gone two or three weeks at a time. Here are the options: The easiest is to do nothing. In this case, after three weeks, the underlying layers of algae will have died. When you return, the water may be cloudy and colored, and the nitrate and phosphate may be increased, but after a screen cleaning and some carbon, it will be back to normal in a few days. This option is ok if you leave only once or twice a year. Nothing should be harmed, however. The next option is to remove the screen. For very long trips, and for cases where you have lots of LR and DSB, this might be best. Of course your tank may develop nuisance algae during the trip because of lack of filtering, and you'll have to start the screen from scratch when you return.



RonRon on the RP site built one with just a tupperware box:
Simple.jpg





Here's another option to attach your screen: Curtain rings...
CurtainRings.jpg
 

Reef Wall

Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

My only question is ....

How is this different from using Bio Balls with a trickle filter?
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

They are not even on the same planet.


Bio balls (trickle, not submerged):

Aerates the water
Convert ammonia to nitrate
Traps food, causing even more nitrates


Scrubbers:

Aerates the water
Consumes ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, metals and CO2.
Produces oxygen
Produces millions of baby copepods
Raises pH
Cools the water if you put a fan on it
Does not trap food
Weighs nothing (does not hold water), and thus can be outside the cabinet, or on top of tank.
 
Last edited:
Top