Live Rock Question ....

[OneFishTwoFish]

I'm really new at this, so here's a basic question. Since Live Rock contains "life", how long can it be kept out of water ? Let's say I want to work with a few pieces to see how they fit together before putting them in my tank ? What's a safe time limit ? I don't want to kill the benefit of Live Rock while I try to build the perfect rock scape.
Thanks !


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[nanoreefing4fun]

It's often shipped overnight wrapped in wet newspaper, when out of the water almost any amount of time, it could have some die off - as an example sponges could die exposed to air in only a few minutes, when cycling a new tank this really does not matter much, as much of the life will still be alive.

So if your tank has cycled and you just want to re-scape, I would try to keep it submerged in 5 gallon buckets in sw as much as possible, but removing it for a short amount of time, should not hurt much... like when one does say a big water change & it is exposed for a few minutes.

See what others think... these are some of my thoughts

 

[PSU4ME]

Yeah the life in it isn't all on the surface so even if it is exposed for an extended amount of time there is still life locked inside of it. But as Glenn said, be wary of the die off ifits kept out of the water too long (like 30-60 minutes)

 

[OneFishTwoFish]

Thanks Nano & PSU . . . That gives me a much better idea of how to handle the rock.

 

[Wrangy]

Pretty much with live rock, as soon as it's removed from the water it can start to die but different things die at different time lengths. LR is alright out of water for about an hour then the bacteria and other things will start to die off, especially on the surface of the rock, the bacteria living in anaerobic areas will be okay as that usually takes quite a while to dry out as it is in the holes and crevices of the rock Sponges for instance die as soon as air hits them which means that as soon as you take your rock out any sponges that hit the air will die, they may survive if underneath or stay completely wet but I would be counting on it. Small critters and hitchhikers will survive a little while out of the water, like crabs, shrimps and mantis Copepods and amphipods will survive a little while as the rock usually remains wet or damp and they hide out deeper within it's structure. Fan worms, urchins, slugs and HH's of that nature will be alright for a while as well

If you're wanting to do your scape with live rock and you haven't cycled your tank or anything like that I would highly, very highly, recommend you do all of your scaping and piecing together inside the tank Not only does it mean your LR stays submerged but it also gives you the best and quickest way to see how it looks inside your tank as it's already there This can be a bit more painful to do as working inside the tank is a little harder but the end result can be better because of it If you aren't planning on using epoxies or drilling the rock then it's definitely the way to be doing it! However if you are I would go the route that Glenn has suggested to you, to try and keep the rock submerged as much as possible.

My advice to you is, as Glenn said, keep it wet and submerged for as long as possible and remove it for the shortest time possible and only when necessary. The less time it's in the air the better If you can try to keep the water it's in heated and if you have a spare powerhead or pump get some water movement too
Hope this helps answer some of your questions and explains a few things

 

[OneFishTwoFish]

Wrangy, thanks so much for the detailed response. I'm planning on purchasing Live Rock at my LFS. They have a great selection. Since this is a new tank (no water in it yet), I'll proceed like this: Fill tank & sump with salt water, stabilize temp and salinity. Pick up Live Rock at LFS and immediately bring home and into tank. Work within the tank on the rock scape. Once the rocks are stable, add sand (some live).

Then I'll begin my cycle. I'm sure that I'll have the urge to re-arrange rocks during the cycle. I'll avoid adding any more rock at that point though.

Great knowledge here at Reef Sanctuary

 

[AwholeAdam]

I would probably get some sand in the aquarium first. Otherwise you will find yourself re-arranging everything again while adding sand. When I set up a new tank I get the water and sand in and let it cycle for at least a few days if not a week. Then I introduce the live rock. You will probably also end up with sand all over your live rock if you add it after the rock. Just a friendly piece of advice.

 

[Wrangy]

No problems, I'm happy to help out

Yep, that's definitely a good plan If I were you and you can afford to make two trips then on the first trip get everything needed to fill and heat the tank with saltwater and on the next trip down get your live rock so that the tank has had time to settle and it reduces the impact on the live rock further. If you can't make two trips get the tank filled and heated and add the rock, it's okay if the water temp isn't spot on but it's more to do with the salinity being correct and stable. Will you be using natural or artificial saltwater?? If you can afford two trips, definitely don't get the rock on the first trip regardless of how strongly the lfs may try to tell you it's okay, it is okay but it's not recommended if you can stabilise the tank first Everything will be better off if you do it that way

I would leave the sand out for a little while during the cycle as it gives you greater freedom to rearrange the rock without disturbing the sand and also allows for you to vacuum up the inevitable die off and detritus that occurs with live rock, depending on the rock and how cured it is will depend on how much die off there is Don't be too worried about it. You can add rock while you're cycling, that's fine if you feel the tank needs a little more. It's better to do it during the cycle rather than after it

I would give the rock two weeks or so by itself in the tank with heater and skimmer running if you have one, it's a good time to break your skimmer in While watching your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters and if you don't see a spike in ammonia during those two weeks at the end I would add in a raw prawn or two (deli shrimp, us Aussies call them prawns ) to kick start the ammonia and nitrate cycle which is the main cycle of bacteria required for the tank

How big is your tank?? And what sort of equipment do you have??

Feel free to post any questions you have and I or one of the lovely members will try our bests to answer them Remember there is NO stupid question in reefing, everything is vital so please ask anything you feel you want clarification on

 

[Wrangy]

Adding rock before sand give for a stronger base as the sand holds it in place further and the rock actually sits on something solid too, not trying to be harsh or anything but it's better to have it on solid foundations If you do get sand on the rock when adding it, you can always powerhead it off or use your hand to wave it off, that's what I did

 

[AwholeAdam]

I stand corrected

 

[OneFishTwoFish]

Thanks again Wrangy ! I'm getting started with a 120 gallon tank. I've got a custom sump that my LFS made for me in a 75 gallon tank. The sump is in the basement, almost directly below the tank. I guess I should start a tank thread.

I'm fine with going slow. I've been researching for 6+ months. Then I spent a month getting the sump and tank areas ready. I'm almost ready to fill with tap water - as a leak test, plumbing test. Maybe later this week. I'd like to see that I'm trouble free for several days before pumping out and refilling with RO/DI. My next step would be to add the salt mix right in the tank & sump. If I have stable temp and salinity for 1-2 weeks, then add Live Rock. Maybe wait another week before adding sand. Then test, wait, test, etc to see what's happening cycle wise.


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[Wrangy]

Awesome, that sounds like a really wicked setup!! Very jealous haha My little 50 gallon cube does alright though lol Definitely start a tank thread though, we all love seeing people's tanks progress and I'll certainly follow along

That's exactly what I want to hear You really have a plan down-pat and will certainly see you off to a really solid start Taking your time is the best thing you can do in reefing!

Any thoughts on what you want to stock the tank with?? Fish and coral-wise?

 

[OneFishTwoFish]

If I get some time today, I'll start my tank thread with a few pictures. As far as a stocking list, I'm still researching fish and corals. I know that I need a list, and I'll run it by everyone here to avoid incompatibilities and determine the stocking sequence. I'd like to end up with friendly fish, a few soft corals, and an interesting clean-up crew.


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[andreefs]

Getting ready to start a 28 gallon nano cube, how do you cycle it with out fish to make the ammonia spike

 

[Snid]

andreefs,

Most of us here prefer a method of using a dead deli shrimp. Just toss it in and let it rot away (you can anchor down if you want, or keep it in a mesh bag for easy removal later). Keep in mind that once you gain the beneficial Bacteria you need from the cycle, you want to keep feeding it so that it remains. So once you're done cycling, you'll want to add some fish food every other day or so (just a small amount) to keep feeding those beneficial Bacteria until you have livestock in the tank.

 

[OneFishTwoFish]

andreefs,

Exactly what Snid said !

I used the deli shrimp method and everything worked out fine.
Here's a link to my recent 'cycle starting' thread:
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...m-discussion/91835-cycle-starting-advice.html

---Frank

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

go to the deli & pick up a raw shrimp, drop it in the tank and let it rot, as it decomposes it will release ammonia into the tank

 

[Jay Morris]

Good Luck and Happy Reefing!