Lighting Question

Rep. Day

Member
I have just set up a JBJ 28 gallon with CF Quad lighting.

If anyone is familiar with this setup, can you tell me if that lighting will allow me to keep an anemone such as a Condi. If not a Condi, any suggestions that will work for this level of lighting.

Thanks for your help!

Dave
 

Adalius

Member
I'm not really up to snuff on what 'CF Quad lighting' equates to. How many bulbs and what wattages? Also how deep is the tank?
 

smkndrgn142

Member
your lights should be fine. However, nems will do better in a tank that's been established for a while and is stable. I'd wait at least 6 months min...longer would be better.
 

Adalius

Member
See above post. You've got 150W for 28g which by the quick and dirty rule of thumb works out to 5.35W per gallon, which is enough lighting. But as mentioned, even the easy to keep Bubble Tips will be better suited for an established tank. I have one in mine after a month and a half that's doing alright, but this is also my 10th anemone that I've had so I wanted to see if it could be done, I wouldn't recommend it for most people.
 

Rep. Day

Member
Thanks to both of you. I do understand that I need to wait, but was just wondering if I had enough light for one. Knowing that I am guessing will help me in adding a few fish, knowing I want an anemone down the road.

Thanks so much!

Dave
 

cheeks69

Wannabe Guru
RS STAFF
I don't know if you plan to make this tank a reef but a Condi is an aggressive anemone with a potent sting and moves frequently which is a bad combination with such a small tank. If you plan to add any coral they will be harmed as well as your fish. I would recommend a BTA but even these can be a problem when they become larger.
 

BigAl07

Administrator
RS STAFF
your lights should be fine. However, nems will do better in a tank that's been established for a while and is stable. I'd wait at least 6 months min...longer would be better.

Yes wait but IMHO that's still not enough light. CF light is some of the LEAST intense light offered. It's a good "Beginner" light but as far as REEF lighting goes it's not intense enough for many type of anemone.

See above post. You've got 150W for 28g which by the quick and dirty rule of thumb works out to 5.35W per gallon, which is enough lighting. But as mentioned, even the easy to keep Bubble Tips will be better suited for an established tank. I have one in mine after a month and a half that's doing alright, but this is also my 10th anemone that I've had so I wanted to see if it could be done, I wouldn't recommend it for most people.

The Watts Per Gallon rule is greatly antiquated. It went out the window when we got some GOOD reef lighting and had more than one type (VHO was our only option for a while). I had 13W per gallon in a tank but it was only CF (more accurately called PC lighting in the Reefing world). Even with that much light I couldn't keep a Seabae anemone in a year old tank with outstanding water parameters. It did fine for a few months then seemingly overnight started to wither and in less than a week was DEAD.

Below is a post I made a while back that may (or may NOT) help shed some light (Pun intended) on this topic.

It helps but doesn't completely make-up. Take my 10g system for instance. I added some INSANE amount of PC light to it. It had a 130W PC fixture on it coming in well over 13 watts per gallon. So in my mind that meant "I should be able to have an anemone, a clam and anything else I want!" So guess what I did... Yeah I slowly killed a clam and a SeaBae anemone because I had a LOT of light but not enough light just the same.

Let's see if I can give an example.... Let's say you're wanting to shoot a gun at a target 3 miles away. You have a PC-Gun that you know is weak and will only shoot a bullet 1 mile. Unfortunately with-in that 1 mile you're still limited to WHAT you can shoot. You can shoot the easy stuff but the really "thick" hard to shoot things still need a stronger gun.

You think that maybe if you shoot 4 PC-guns side by side it will make ONE of the bullets go for 3 miles. Truth be known you are still only shooting 1 mile but you have 4 times as many bullets going that 1 mile. You could shoot 100 PC-guns side by side and you still wont get a single bullet to go the required 3 miles. But for that first mile you're really racking up the "Bullets Per Mile" (Watts per Gallon).

So you try a new T5-Gun. You've read where T5-guns are much stronger than PC-guns especially if you add the new "Reflective Coating" in the barrel (individual reflectors). You know that the T5-gun is amazingly strong and accurate until about 2.5 miles. Within the 2.5 miles you can "shoot" just about anything you want from the easy ones to the really REALLY hard ones. You just have to be specific about WHERE you shoot them (coral placement).

Now you talk to someone and they say, "If you get one of these MH-guns you can shoot 3 miles and MORE! Sometimes this may be TOO much gun for something that's easy and less than a mile away." At least you now KNOW you can shoot even those HARD to hit ones at your 3 mile range (and further if you want to).

Lastly someone has this new LED-gun. It's supposed to be able to shoot anything from close to REALLY far and be easily adjustable anywhere in between. The drawback to this one is it's brand new and not perfected. It's very expensive and somewhat of a GAMBLE this early in the "Hunt". Right now there is a lot of misinformation and "marketing smoke & mirrors" in the LED-gun market. There are LED-slingshots (1w LED) as well as currently available LED-rifles (3w LED). I'm sure in the near future we'll see LED Cruise Missles :LOL: (5w, 10w + LED) but for now if everything is made correctly you'll want at least 3w LED bullets in your gun.

If that doesn't confuse you then you're good to go :)


PC bulbs are very limited in what they can produce. I'm not saying they don't produce enough in the right spectrum for coral because they really DO for some coral! You've got to remember that at one time PC what the SHIZZLE and many of us kept some VERY nice coral under them. We just had to stay with easier to keep coral and be mindful of WHERE we placed them.


Once again when comparing ONE type of lighting to another you can't compare Watt to Watt. What matters is how INTENSE the light is per Watt. This determines how DEEP the light penetrates the water. Now that you have enough LIGHT ENERGY penetrating deep enough you also have to have the RIGHT type of energy getting there. This is PAR ( “Photosynthetically active radiation “ which is just saying how much light energy, in the correct spectrum, is there for photosynthesis to take place.). You need the RIGHT light going DEEP enough into your tank to get the desired results.
Whew! I think I just talked myself in circles there . . .

Regardless when you're talking LED you have to know what you're wanting and know what you're looking out. Unless it's a high output, high intensity unit you're buying little more than a really bright MOON LIGHT!!

Here is a very good read on Lighting a Reef Tank
 

Eric

Google Warrior
PREMIUM
I have to agree with Al, the other thing is the amount of waste a nem produces when feed weekly can surely fowl a 28 gallon tank quick.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
I don't know if you plan to make this tank a reef but a Condi is an aggressive anemone with a potent sting and moves frequently which is a bad combination with such a small tank. If you plan to add any coral they will be harmed as well as your fish. I would recommend a BTA but even these can be a problem when they become larger.

Agreed.

Not only that, most Conri's being sold in LFS are in poor shape. If you see a white or pink one it means it has lost it's symbiotic algae, and it's going to be tough fo rit to survive. Good ones will look brown or pinkish brown.

Go with a BTA as a first large anemone.
 

Adalius

Member
The Watts Per Gallon rule is greatly antiquated.

Well aware, that's why I always refer to it as a quick and dirty rule of thumb, not the slow steady and excellent to use rule of thumb. Given his tank is only 18" deep though, it's not the worst way of looking at if he has enough lighting without getting meters involved.

However, as I mentioned, I've been having good luck under 4 - 36W PC's with my BTA. It's not able to penetrate to the depth that the same wattage of other lighting can, but as the BTA can move it was kind enough to keep itself up by the top of the tank. Would he be better off under something other than PC? No question he would, but 3 tanks and 10 nems and I haven't had one go south on me yet in 5 years. Only trying to say it can be done, not that it should.

The current one I have is just a month and a half, my 2nd tank had 4 of them over it's lifespan all under PC lighting and they all made it well over a year before being sold, except one that I had for the last 3 years the tank was up.

So in short, I agree it's antiquated, but without a lot of info to go on, I still use it as a last-resort measure.
 

BigAl07

Administrator
RS STAFF
Adalius well put. Obviously you're able to make it happen and it's not just a quirk because you're able to repeat the results... 10x over LOL!

:)
 

Adalius

Member
Yea, kind of got into them by accident with a hitchhiker. Just have the 1 BTA now but man oh man, I must have 10-12 strawberry anemones, all under the size of a dime on one rock.
 

Johnly

Member
The watt per gallon rule is still good if you are smart enough to consider the light source I think. Yes, many lights and styles have hit the trade, but the dirty watt per gallon rule is a decent baseline. Those that say it isn't don't offer the alternative, so go with it until they have one :) I used a 100 watt quad, 2 actinics, and 2 10,000 k bulbs under a super reflector. That was in a 30, and was a good beginners tank. The pros around here use halides (for beauty, and coral health) why invest 1,000-5,000 dollars in coral and pinch between T5's, quad4's, or any "cheap lighting?" If you love your reef, spend the extra bucks, and give them light they can use all the way to the bottom!

I have always seen better results using the good stuff, but some people here swear by there T5's....but remember, they fade fast at 12-18 inches of depth, so go ahead and get better lighting if you have 15" or deeper.

Only if you absolutely love your reef! Maybe pc's will penetrate nems and sps fine...but I haven't ever seen that at a 20" depth yet....no matter how many reflectors....it is all spectrum, and MH almost duplicate the sun, as PC's are more "artificial" but work well too is some cases where the tank is shallow, and only softy's are kept. I think a bubble tip would be fine under T5's at 18 inches though!

Read, research, and talk with many! Use this forum along with 2 more...then you will at least have a educated decision to make....good luck!
 

BigAl07

Administrator
RS STAFF
but the dirty watt per gallon rule is a decent baseline. Those that say it isn't don't offer the alternative, so go with it until they have one :)

That's because there is no way you can lay down a simple "per gallon rule".

If you were to set up 2 10g tanks identical except one has PC and one MH... try to use your watts per gallon rule....

Tank #1 add 15wpg of PC light. Not bad probably a pretty bright tank.

Tank #2 add 15wpm of MH. That's 150w of MH. Yeah you can grow anything that can TAKE HIGH INTENSE light but forget about anything else.

With all due respect I have to differ heavily to your comment there. Just because there's no alternative to your WPG rule doesn't make it a viable rule to use.
 

Johnly

Member
That's because there is no way you can lay down a simple "per gallon rule".

If you were to set up 2 10g tanks identical except one has PC and one MH... try to use your watts per gallon rule....

Tank #1 add 15wpg of PC light. Not bad probably a pretty bright tank.

Tank #2 add 15wpm of MH. That's 150w of MH. Yeah you can grow anything that can TAKE HIGH INTENSE light but forget about anything else.

With all due respect I have to differ heavily to your comment there. Just because there's no alternative to your WPG rule doesn't make it a viable rule to use.

I like your style sir! But depending on the light, the watt per gallon rule can be quite effective! SPS need more per gallon than LPS, and so the LPS usually end up under a PC, while the SPS end up under Halides. I think 5 to 9 watts of halides is good for SPS! But 3 to 5 watts is good for softies on PC's. I am just going with the rule of thumb that tank builders buy the right light for their needs, and have done proper research! Yes, 3 to 5 watts of halide on LPS and mushrooms could be over kill, but I bet it is closer than one may think! :)

I guess keeping it a little clean helps, as there is no "one size fits all."

Watt per gallon is very effective when the light source and tank life is taken into account. Without those parameters, the dirty watt per gallon rule is bunk!

Other things to consider....maintenance, ballasts, thickness of glass top, and type, coral location, supplement lighting, timers, temperature, salinity, all can factor the end result.

Watt per gallon, with consideration can't be beat for a baseline to work off of for a beginner....after all, it is a great way to get an idea, and adjust as necessary ; )

20 years in the hobby.....
 

Rep. Day

Member
I REALLY appreciate all of this infomration. If nothing else, I have learned that I need to continue to do a ton of research and that probably I need to go another direction than an anemone...or if I do get one have some time and experience under my belt.

I have to say, I tried another SW forum and while there was what seemed to be good information on there, folks would not answer questions at all of a beginner, you guys/gals are great. Thanks.
 

BigAl07

Administrator
RS STAFF
I REALLY appreciate all of this infomration. If nothing else, I have learned that I need to continue to do a ton of research and that probably I need to go another direction than an anemone...or if I do get one have some time and experience under my belt.

That's exactly how we all got here.. some of us (Me) took the long, hard EXPENSIVE route of learning through trial and error in the beginning. I like to learn from OTHER'S mistakes anytime I can.

I have to say, I tried another SW forum and while there was what seemed to be good information on there, folks would not answer questions at all of a beginner, you guys/gals are great. Thanks.

It's easy to forget that we ALL started at the same place. We all had to learn one way or another and hopefully the combined sharing of ideas and experiences will help you, your tank and your wallet in the long run!!
 

Johnly

Member
I REALLY appreciate all of this infomration. If nothing else, I have learned that I need to continue to do a ton of research and that probably I need to go another direction than an anemone...or if I do get one have some time and experience under my belt.

I have to say, I tried another SW forum and while there was what seemed to be good information on there, folks would not answer questions at all of a beginner, you guys/gals are great. Thanks.

We appreciate you asking questions! I think this is a great forum too. I still learn new things, and continue doing research! So we are doing this great hobby together. I look forward to hearing what you decide to do...
Let us know!:thumbup:
 
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