Issues with RS

[tankgirl]

kennerd, Yeah, my heart sank when I saw that happen. I think this is important and would have liked to see it stay 'available' for at least 24 hours before it got parked in a closet.

My hopes were SO high for this place. Maybe too high. Some quotes from another thread about our hopes and dreams for this forum;

ReefLady: The question has been asked - how do we make our "niche" - what will distinguish this site from all the other reefing sites out there? 1) Community -- that is you. The members are the building blocks. You set the tone, self-moderate, and present an "attitude" that welcomes (and retains) newcomers.

tankgirl: That's one of my dreams; information without politics!

Curtswearing: Tech is good. However, it's the people who keep people coming back. Pic's of great tanks, honest (two-way and nice) discussions of real reefing issues, and the recommendations of those tank-owners are extremely valuable. We can also discuss "meatier" issues without fear of retribution. Don't reefer's deserve both sides of the coin???

What happened? Instead we have;
Mods who got overzealous with their power, who make changes and edits on a whim without any consensus, put out fires before there are fires to put out, who change history, congratulate themselves with how great they are, brag and making their experience and expertise sound bigger than it is, power cliques of self-congratulating mods, repressing any hint of differing opinions and being pretty mean about it. Oh, and mods and mod-wanna-bes who're so eager to post in every single thread that the atmosphere gets really thick with insincere crapola. It's obviously apparent to others too.

My dream was of a public reef forum where everyone's opinion could be expressed and shared and respected - not shuttled to some sidetrack or edited. I agree that some topics are verboten, off-track. I agree that if members don't self-police, then the mods have to. But the hypocrisy is pretty bad here. Nobody wants to be micro-managed and controlled so minutely that every word is stilted. Some of the mods are the worst offenders for the very stuff they moderate; jokes, sidetracking threads, etc.

Let's please address these issues! Don't hide them.

 

[LuckyInk]

Originally posted by tankgirl
...and mod-wanna-bes who're so eager to post in every single thread that the atmosphere gets really thick with insincere crapola.

I had a good chuckle to myself when I read this, cuz I have been thinking it for a while now!

 

[Crakeur]

Scott et al, I wasn't complaining about this thread being moved and I wasn't singling anyone out.

since one of tankgirl's issues was the moving of a thread, I was stating that they should all be moved to the appropriate forum but they aren't. I think I was rather clear when I said that the gm thread was an example of the kind of thread that has become the exception because it has become a custom. I wasn't complaining, merely using it as an example.

With regards to the powers that are bestowed upon you as a mod, you do have powers. I can go and edit anyone else's post. I can merely ask you to change yours. I can't ban someone (I know, you can't without a group decision but I can't even suggest it). I can only post. Thus, the mods have more power here than I do. I'm not knocking it, I'm saying that moving threads is a pain in the butt but it comes with the territory. With power comes responsibility. One of those responsibilities is moving threads when the move is deemed appropriate (mod decides if it's appropriate to move - another power as it were).


I really think y'all need to stop reading between the lines on every post. This is another example of the added scrutiny that my posts seem to get.

Reread the first paragraph of my last post. I said threads should be moved to the appropriate forum and it's fine by me. It didn't belong in the general section to begin with.

touchy folks. I'm agreeing with some of your points.

 

[jks1]

I'm having a hard time following here- this whole discussion started because a photo thread was moved to a photo forum after it had been on the second page for a day or so?

I post here just about every day and have never been "warned or told to tone down". I am certain if you post is regarding reefkeeping it will not require such warnings.

TG, I have a lot of respect for you although Ive never personnaly met you. Your opinions are very valued. I just dont see what the point is with this thread.

 

[tankgirl]

Craig, lying about moving the Rob thread is kind of a lousy thing to do. My biggest issue here is about deceit. I would so much like to get some truth here.

Alf, you didn't respond to any of my issues about Robs thread. It's not about photography - it's about reefkeeping. Do you think information can only be imparted with words? Do you think only threads with words should be allowed in the Gen. Discussion forum? If so, why isn't that a uniform decision? Why doesn't it apply to everyone? Robs thread is one of the 10 most popular and visited threads ever on this forum. Luis's similar "Dreams come true" thread is on page 3, so Robs thread on page 2 doesn't convince me at all.

I think the GM thread is about as useless and idiotic as it gets. But, I respect the fact that others enjoy it! If you guys want to do stuff like that - at least make it fair and make it apply to every one equally.

jks, sorry, I don't mean to get so heated. But, the answers I'm getting are worrying me a bunch. Robs thread isn't about photography!!! It's about reefkeeping and is pretty general.

 

[ScottT1980]

Scott et al, I wasn't complaining about this thread being moved and I wasn't singling anyone out.

No worries bud, I didn't take offense nor was I really trying to single you out. I was just trying to answer a question to the best of my ability. I know how discussions like this can get bogged down in details and so I wanted to make sure that at least one of the details might be better explained.

In other words, I was quickly trying to answer a question before a secondary discussion was begun. Did that make sense?

I try to stay objective as possible in the whole process and I am really not on anyone's side. I think TG makes some great points that should probably surface. I think that the desired "family atmosphere" does come with some drawbacks that can really look standoffish to others. Also, I think that there is a bit of hypocracy as far as mod content...

One instance that does come to mine is that individuals joke, mod warns, individuals call mod "up-tight," mod doesnt want to look up-tight so mod goes with the flow and makes similar joke, mod called a hypocrite... Perhaps I am wrong, just how I percieve some situations

Just some musings, back to the books...

Take er easy
Scott t.

 

[SunnyX]

:faces:

If many people are complaining than maybe there should be a vote on whether or not this forum needs new MODS.
I personally am quite happy with the job they are doing.
But TG, you have to understand that this board needs to be kept in order. questions in one section and photo's in another,ect..
The thread is already on the main page so I know that people are still viewing it.

Basically, both sides are not wrong, but maybe the MODS should update or create a new list of do's and dont's. And if people are'nt happy with the current MODS than maybe we should have a say or a vote on who should become a MOD.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[LuckyInk]

Originally posted by tankgirl
Craig, lying about moving the Rob thread is kind of a lousy thing to do. My biggest issue here is about deceit. I would so much like to get some truth here.

Take 'er easy sister. Craig said he 'probably' moved the thread. It was a preemptive apology on his part, and if not for himself, then for his fellow mods. I don't believe he intentionally lied to ya!

 

[ReefLady]

I think there are some excellent points being made here, thank you all for voicing your opinions and you’re all doing a great job of keeping it level-headed. Crak, I’m glad to see you chime in here, in a way the staff can look at reasonably without emotions attached. I think the whole thing could have been handled better, and in the future I hope we do. But I want to reiterate that the blame for this falls squarely on the shoulders of Teri and myself, not the moderators. Had we provided the mods with firm, consistent guidelines in the first place, this all could have been avoided. Bad on us. But if there’s one thing I’m an expert at, it’s learning from my mistakes. And in our own defense, nobody walks the fine line better than Crakeur (no offense meant), so it wasn’t as easy as anyone may think.
Tankgirl- I still don’t understand how a thread being moved can make you so angry. It’s not your decision to make, you’re free to disagree with that decision but I think your outrage about it being moved is entirely blown out of proportion.

I’m not sure what thread was referred to that went away in less than 24 hours but I’ll look into it. Unfortunately I’m at work at the moment and have to sneak on here when I can.

 

[tankgirl]

You're right, Lucky!! Sorry!

SunnyX, Do you think all pics should be relegated to the photography forum? I don't. The photography forum seems to me to be about discussing picture taking - how to do it, camera settings, etc.

Trav, why did you put your new thread about pics of your tank in the Gen. Discussion forum? Because you wanted the majority of the group to see it, right? If you thought it was such a small thing, why didn't you put your thread in the photography section? See? Your answer seems a little hypocritical to me, because I think it makes an obvious difference and I can't understand why Robs thread was singled out as deserving of being put on the backburner.

I'm upset because the answers I've gotten (so far) about it have not made sense to me, and have not convinced me. And, because anything that smacks to me of favoritism just wipes me out. Give me one good reason why Robs thread was singled out!! And, if pics cant be used in the Gen Discussion forum, why isn't that uniform, why doesn't it apply to everyone? I'm sincerely hoping you can give me some convincing answers to those two questions.

 

[Crakeur]

scott, I think I understood some of that explanation. Must be the dead thing. something in the air.


I don't necessarily agree with removing mods. Management, for lack of a better word, decides that member x, member y and member z are knowledgeable, respected and fair and management decides that these people will watch over the boards and make sure things run smoothly.

If the mods don't work out you don't need to axe them, simply point out the issues and give them a chance to adjust.

That said, management might not see a problem. Thus the mods aren't out of line.

Scott, the hypocrisy issue, as I see it, was pointed out in my first post. It has nothing to do with someone trying to not seem uptight. At least not what I was involved with. In my case I was edited (sometimes correctly, sometimes a bit overzealously in my opinion) while mods and other members were free to post things that were just as offensive as some of my minor infractions.

In the first case, my post was deleted while the thread that I posted in was left alone. I complained to the two mods that were involved that, since they deleted my post for fear of it offending someone, they should delete the thread as I found it offensive. After some back and forth discussion, the thread was finally deleted.

 

[Crakeur]

damn you travis, you squeezed the management issue in there before me.

Sincerely,

Tightrope walker

 

[ScottT1980]

Yeah Crak, I don't think I was reffering to your case. In fact, I don't think I am familiar with your situation and therefore, as John Goodman says many times in the Big Lebowski, " have no frame of reference..."

Anyway, I don't want to be a hypocrte myself and involve uneeded details

Take er easy
Scott T.

 

[kennerd]

And thank you all for the visual of Crak in a leotard on a tightrope....guh: my own dilusional mind, I guess..

Travis: again, she was referring to the irony that this thread was moved within 24 hours, not that it was deleted. It's in the details, bro: the juicy stuff will still be here...

another client.....BB

 

[mojoreef]

Well I guess you may think that is power, I really dont, more of a job. Personal I have moved mybe three threads on this board including this one. I have never edited a post unless it was mine and I have no power to ban anyone.
Again personally I am not trying to read bewteen any lines, just tring to respond to question and ascertions made.

Mike

 

[Crakeur]

Mojo, you are taking my comments as negative and they weren't. Seriously. Not at all. You are a mod here. you have responsibilities and the ability to do things that others cannot. If you can tell me another word that explains being able to do things that others cannot, I'll gladly go back and substitute it wherever I typed powers. However you want to view it, you have been empowered with certain abilities that others don't have ( imagine me with the ability to edit hehe). You refer to it as "more of a job." Of course it is. Hell, when someone gives me power of attorney to talk to the IRS for them, I don't view that power as a good thing. It's a nightmarish drag having to sit and talk to the IRS. But that is still a power. Fortunately, I get paid to use my powers.

I really think you are viewing my comments as a knock on the mods for things other than those that many seem to agree on.

Besides, you agreed to take on the job, nobody forced you into it (or did they?). I assume you can step down if you so desire (I am in no way suggesting that).

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Originally posted by tankgirl
Craig, lying about moving the Rob thread is kind of a lousy thing to do.

TG,

You must be really having a bad day. That's a little harsh.

I have moved a lot of threads and also moderate another board as well as run a business, have a family, etc. (Not complaining just the facts). I thought I might have moved it although not 100% sure. Certainly not a deception, but an honest mistake. I knew Travis didn't move it as he has been busy moving into a new house. Thanks Alf for clearing things up.

Again, for everyone, if you have an issue, don't let it fester. Contact an Admin or Mod by PM and we'll do everything to answer your question or explain the situation. This is a good dialogue, so let's keep moving forward.

:smirk:

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Originally posted by jks1
I am certain if you post is regarding reefkeeping it will not require such warnings.

That is the absolute truth John!

:smirk:

 

[tankgirl]

Craigy, you're right. Sorry I was harsh. I can't understand why Rob's thread was singled out of the pack and many others left in place and I'm getting runarounds, so I'm edgy and weird.

 

[Playa]

I think if I were to put aside all the emotions displayed here so far(right or wrong) The most relevant issue for me would be this:

"Craigy, Imo, the photography forum is for talking about the technical aspects of photography. Rob's tank thread is a showcase for his awesome tank and amazing corals. It's a thread that inspires us to new heights with our own captive bit of ocean."

"Robs thread isn't about photography!!! It's about reefkeeping and is pretty general."

I share tg's opinion in this regard.

I think Alf's opinion differs to mine in this regard.

My 2 cents.

Peace,

Luis