I'm considering DIY 2prt additives

cracker

cracker

Well-Known Member
The 2prt suppliment I use is starting to thin my wallet! At 200 mls a day. I'm considering using one of Randy H farley's recipes. Lets see if I got the link right. right.http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/4/chemistry
Anybody use this ?Any opinions ? Thanks!
On a side note I would consider using an off the shelf mag suppliment for the 3rd prt.
 
D

DaveK

Well-Known Member
The ideas expressed in the article you point to are quite valid. However, before going in that direction, first determine if you really need to do it.

First measure your SG, preferably with a refractometer. If that is off, it's going to skew all the other calcium and magnesium readings.
What is the rate of calcium, and to a lessor extent magnesium is consumed?
What are the reading you get with newly mixed SW? If they are low there, you may want to change sale brands.
Is your water change schedule good enough to maintain the calcium level?
What calcium consuming livestock do you have in the tank? Usually these are stony corals, especially SPS, and clams.

Lastly, Don't chase numbers. For elample, if you want a calcium reading of 450, and your water is 410, don't worry about it. If your water is 300, then you have a problem.
 
cracker

cracker

Well-Known Member
Thanks Dave K, I have looked into the dosing machines, Lime/kalk ,calcium reactors. At this time, I feel more comfortable using a 2/prt additive. Mostly because I'm used to it plus I know how much of what I add. This 200 gl tank has 6 softy's 4 lps and 2 sps. I intend on adding more.A lot more ! I use oceanblend 2prt and need at least 200mls of alk to keep levels up.The ca is "I think" a little less at this time.That;s what I'm trying to get right at the moment. The tank sucks up the alk and ca like I drink beer! I couldn't figure out where until I turn over a rock, it seems I have a lot of new coraline growth. My sg is at 1.026 alk7 ca was real low at 340 mag was 1400. These readings need improvement.I certainly don't chase numbers in fact I'm terrible on testing regular anyway. I use coral life salt because last time I did a comparison it had higher ca than the instant ocean.It has been years since I tested a batch of newly mixed water. I dose 200mls of each daily.it runs about 40$ a month. I use redsea pro test kits and test every other month and back these up with an accasional test at my LFS for a comparison. One thing for sure whether good or bad the tank is stable LOL I have to dump a gallon in it to change! Just want to save a buck if I can make my own additives. Thanks again, Brian

Also I'd like to add that I do an almost full brute garbage can of water changes loosely every 2 weeks.
 
Ratpack

Ratpack

Active Member
Something doesn't seem right here. With so few corals and doing a water change every 2 weeks, it is hard for me to imagine adding that much 2 pt to keep up with the tank. I have a 75 gal tank with at least 10 softies, 3 LPS and about 20 SPS. By the ratio you use of 200 mls on 200 gal, I should use 75 mls on my 75gal. Actually even more given the higher coral population. But I dose only about 20mls a day. I also have coraline growing all over the tank and have to scrap it weekly on several panels.
 
D

DaveK

Well-Known Member
Your calcium is low, and your magnesium slightly high.

This sounds like you might want to give the system a one time boost by using calcium chloride. Here is once such product (offsite) - http://www.marinedepot.com/Kent_Mar...pplements-Kent_Marine-KM3371-FIADCADC-vi.html

This is something you only want to do once and awhile. It should not be used on an ongoing basis to adjust calcium. All the usual safe handeling applies here. Mix it carefully, change the level slowly, and so on.

I agree with Ratpack in that you shouldn't need that much 2 part for your tank on a regular basis. I recommend you test your newly mixed SW. You may have an issue there and the sale may be mixing to that level. If that is the case, switch salt brands.
 
cracker

cracker

Well-Known Member
Let me break out my logbook. If ratpack is correct, That would be fine with me! Ok talk about not testing regular. I'm looking back as late as 0ct 2013. At that time My ca,alk,mag levels were rock bottom. I started dosing the 2 prt then.200 mls each. Lets move forward to may 2014. Ca at 440 alk 8.1 mag 1400. I stayed at 200mls of alk and droped to 125 mls of Ca . So Dec 30 2014 .sal 1.025 Ca 340 alk 7.3 mag 1400. So since then I increased the Ca prt up to 200mls. So now I dose 200mls of both " every"day. I will test in the next week or 2. I know I know.I don't test often enough. Also I confess to not dosing regularly in the past as I stated. So I got it coming to me ! I'm telling You what, You guys don't miss a thing! Thanks again!
 
Oxylebius

Oxylebius

Well-Known Member
cracker said:
I'm telling You what, You guys don't miss a thing! Thanks again!
Click to expand...

Ha! Funny.

I have a tank FULL of sps corals and a hand full of other types. I dose 100mls a day each of Ca and Alk in a 65g tank, with weekly water changes. And I was beginning to think this was a lot. Following along b/c I was starting to wonder if there was another way to keep levels high and not have to start dosing even more than I already do. I'm interested to hear feed back from others on this topic.

I use BRS brand. I've been happy with the brand, the corals are growing and don't seem to show any issues using this brand. You may want to look into it.
 
cracker

cracker

Well-Known Member
Remember Folks, My readings were rock bottom when I started dosing. Hopefully this heavy dosing is just to get it where it needs to be. then I can cut back a bit. Thanks nano I will check out that mix your own!

The BRS stuff is very interesting!
 
cracker

cracker

Well-Known Member
Hello, Randy's recipes are confusing to me. In recipe 1 He states,"If you drip lime water.this is not for You". OK So then in recipe 2 he states "If You dose Lime water this may be the one for You". Why can't he say if you "don't dose Limewater then use this recipe ? I'm missing something!
Anyway, So I tested today ,well ok Jason at the LFS tested today. See I'm being factual here,I know how sharp Ya'll are ! So now my readings a little high kinda, but still in the park
sal 1.027 that point or two either way is driving my crazy
Ca 420 way up
alk 9 up as well
mag 1400 the same & a little high
So I propose to dose 150mls for a month and see how that works. Op's would be appreciated! Thanks Brian
 
reefer gladness

reefer gladness

Well-Known Member
cracker said:
Hello, Randy's recipes are confusing to me. In recipe 1 He states,"If you drip lime water.this is not for You". OK So then in recipe 2 he states "If You dose Lime water this may be the one for You". Why can't he say if you "don't dose Limewater then use this recipe ?
Click to expand...

IMO the reason it's stated that way is because dripping limewater (aka kalk or kalkwasser) is so cheap and easy when setup correctly that it's something you would do before you ever consider supplementing with 2-part.

I used to dose 2-part, then I switched to a Nilsen-type reactor dosing kalkwasser and never looked back. On rare occasions I still dose to increase levels but the kalk was able to maintain calcium and alk levels all by itself.

Note: adding kalk to your top-off reservoir is no where near as effective as the Nilsen-type reactor mentioned above.
 
D

DaveK

Well-Known Member
cracker said:
...
sal 1.027 that point or two either way is driving my crazy
Ca 420 way up
alk 9 up as well
mag 1400 the same & a little high
...
Click to expand...

It is critical to consider SG when you test for Ca, Mg and alk. Consider that very soft FW will have a SG of 1.000 and we typically keep SW at 1.025. Your tank is 1.027. That .002 difference doesn't sound like much, but it translates into about a 8% difference in your readings. This means that when you account for the high SG, the Ca level at 1.025 would be about 386 and the Mg level about 1288.

Be sure to adjust your SG and then retest.
 
cracker

cracker

Well-Known Member
I see, I'm trying to keep salinity at 1.026. I surely didn't realize that those two points could have that great affect on the test results. So those 2 points put me at the low end of the park,instead of the high end. So,, getting that exact salinity is important ,yet difficult to obtain ! Just emptying a full skimmer cup or two can change that. Or say acclimating a new animal to the system. I don't keep a can full of new saltwater all the time. I don't like the idea of the water sitting around absorbing who know what. However, just adding a bit when You clean the skimmer or such would help. The logistics are hurting my brain! Thanks again
 
M

max6297

New Member
Randy's recipes are fine. I use Preston Driveway Heat to make calcium, never had a problem.

He has two formulas for raising alkalinity, both use baking soda. Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, this will raise alkalinity but drive down PH. If you bake, baking soda you will get sodium carbonate, this will raise alkalinity and PH. Most people will use sodium carbonate in their tanks. I have use his formulas for calcium and alkalinity dosing for years with no problems. I do not use the magnesium formula, it is a little harder to get the raw materials.

I have used Ms. Wages pickling lime as a Kalwasser drip on occasion.

You have to remember that a molecule of water can only hold so much of each mineral. You have to have your salt, and magnesium correct first. Calcium and alkalinity effect each other. Adding too much calcium drives down alkalinity and vice versa. It is a balancing act. You have to determine your tanks uptake of these items.

It is always okay to run your magnesium on the high side (1,400 plus) this will help with algae control.
 
cracker

cracker

Well-Known Member
Thanks all, I added 2 popsicle sticks under the bracket that hold my ro topoff float. Zthat will add a bit more freshwater. Hopefully that will bring the SG down a bit. I may need more sticks! I personally prefer the ones with ice cream covered with orange sherbet .Dream bars I think? Hey reef keeping has perks, one would not expect!
 
cracker

cracker

Well-Known Member
On a serious note!I have carefully read the instructions on my redsea reef foundation pro test kit. I assume the ""pro" part is important! ok no where does it state what Sg/ppt is required for an accurate test. It does say for every 1ppt increase in SG will increase CA by 13ppm and 40 ppn mag. so my question is what SG is the starting point? Talk about ambiguity! So I just e/med these people to find out. Will I get the same runaround as I got from the instructions?:banghead: Also the popsicle sticks are not working. I went to fat carpenter pencils for shims. I will come up with a system of shims to raise or lower the ATO float for fine adjust of SG. I can remove or add depending. I heard somewhere that Davek was hard on the beginners :nopity: ! Hey if You want a successful tank You gotta pay attention to the details! I take great pride as being the "'top senior beginner" on this sight, I can appreciate that as I need all the advice I can get! LOL
 
Ratpack

Ratpack

Active Member
I may have missed it, but do you dose by hand or with a dosing pump? I used to chase these numbers around and never could get them right. Seemed when I added more, the number went down and up and never was consistent. What I did was what everyone is advising. Since you have so few corals, maybe stop dosing all together and get the salinity correct and continue to do water changes. Then once the tank is settled out, test and see where you are. Then get the mag where it needs to be and get that stable. From there, start testing the alk and cal every couple days and see where they are. Start to dose small doses each day and continue to measure and adjust every couple days. A dosing pump helps. This is what I did until I got the levels I wanted and it has stayed there since. All my SPS are growing more now, so I anticipate moving the doses up a bit, but no where near where you are / were. My alk stays at about 8.5 and cal is at 460.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top