I need another fish

[moze229]

I need more poo.

I've had my 20 gallon nano set up since 2006, and I've had the SAME THING in there pretty much the whole time. Two o. clown fish. I like clown fish and all, but I'm ready to see something new. I don't want to get rid of my current fish necessarily, but I suppose that I could. I'd rather supplement what's there. I've recently decided that my water is too clean and I want to experiment a little with coral growth and more fish waste.

Why don't I just feed the coral? Well, I do - some. The LPS and ricordia get chunks of meat now and again. But I believe that fish waste is more 'efficient' for the overall system. The waste is going to be there anyway, right? So if there is a life form that utilizes it, that's great. If I can find ways to import less nutrients and still get the same results…wahlah! I also have SPS. This amino acid stuff and other foods made specifically for SPS scare me. If you don't know what you're doing, you can really pollute a tank. If I had a large tank and a mega skimmer I wouldn't worry about it. This is a small tank with a small skimmer and turf scrubber.

I've always been very careful about overstocking - something that's carried over since I began all this in 1998. I see these people overstocking all the time, and I don't want to go that far. I think one more smaller fish might be good, but I can't decide on what might work best. O. clowns aren't too aggressive for being damsels - it's not like they are maroon clowns or something. But they've been in there a long time. Anyone have any suggestions? Most references claim these clowns are pretty docile anytime, but I've been around enough to know that any fish gets aggressive when they've been in an environment for a long time. And no, changing the aquascape in not an option. Has anyone ever placed another type of fish into an environment where o. clownfish have lived for 8+ years in solitude? They are not a breeding pair per se, but they are sized appropriately to be considered 'paired'.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

one small fish I have that I really enjoy is my bartlett anthias - lots great choices but that's one you might consider, mine gets along fine with my breeding pair of ocellaris clownfish, my clowns are so gentle I can put my hand in the tank right next to their eggs & zero aggression

lots of great Blennies too

 

[DianaKay]

Back in my tanks early days, I added a Royal Gramma http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+21+53&pcatid=53 (off site link about them) and it seem to naturally buddy up with my clownfish pair.
They never quarreled and the clowns allowed the royal gramma into their space.
You might consider one.

Edit: My tank is not 8 years yet but I can say no other fish are usually allowed to hang out near the clown's little clay pot like they let the Royal Gramma

 

[frisbee]

I've had a pair of Ocellaris clownfish in my 20 gallon tank for about 5 years now. Well, about a month ago I tore down a 10 gallon nano tank and put a small three-stripe damsel in the 20 with the clowns. They harassed this fish to no end for about two weeks or so. Just relentless. Anyways, I finally had to drain the tank to get the damsel out. I was going to suggest something like a Fiji Blue Devil damsel, maybe a Bangaii Cardinal, or perhaps a Royal Gramma, but after seeing how my clowns reacted to this new addition, yours might just be better off on their own. JMO, GL.

 

[moze229]

I've had a pair of Ocellaris clownfish in my 20 gallon tank for about 5 years now. Well, about a month ago I tore down a 10 gallon nano tank and put a small three-stripe damsel in the 20 with the clowns. They harassed this fish to no end for about two weeks or so. Just relentless. Anyways, I finally had to drain the tank to get the damsel out. I was going to suggest something like a Fiji Blue Devil damsel, maybe a Bangaii Cardinal, or perhaps a Royal Gramma, but after seeing how my clowns reacted to this new addition, yours might just be better off on their own. JMO, GL.

Remember that clowns are damselfish, so they usually will not mix well with other damsels. Clownfish are usually pretty docile fish (besides the Maroon clowns), even when they are paired. They are not often kept in pairs alone for this length of time though. Sorry that you had your situation - fish can be hard to catch.

one small fish I have that I really enjoy is my bartlett anthias - lots great choices but that's one you might consider, mine gets along fine with my breeding pair of ocellaris clownfish, my clowns are so gentle I can put my hand in the tank right next to their eggs & zero aggression

lots of great Blennies too

I'm looking at blennies now. I wanted a scooter before, but I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to keep it alive, due to its strict feeding requirements.

Back in my tanks early days, I added a Royal Gramma http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...1+53&pcatid=53 (off site link about them) and it seem to naturally buddy up with my clownfish pair.
They never quarreled and the clowns allowed the royal gramma into their space.
You might consider one.


Edit: My tank is not 8 years yet but I can say no other fish are usually allowed to hang out near the clown's little clay pot like they let the Royal Gramma

I completely forgot about Royal Grammas! I'll take a look at those too.

Thanks for the ideas so far!

 

[frisbee]

Remember that clowns are damselfish, so they usually will not mix well with other damsels. Clownfish are usually pretty docile fish (besides the Maroon clowns), even when they are paired. They are not often kept in pairs alone for this length of time though. Sorry that you had your situation - fish can be hard to catch.

I understand, but I've kept clownfish in the past with other damsels & everybody seemed to get along fine. In a case like this though, the size of the tank might be a factor. Two adult clownfish in a 20 gallon tank is kind of a tight squeeze to begin with. Instead of trading the damsel in, I thought I'd give it a shot, but the clownfish were not having it this time. Good luck with yours though.

 

[DaveK]

You have a 20 gal tank, by the time you subtract for the live rock and sand, your down to about 15 gal. If your clown fish are 2 1/2" long, you have 5 inches of fish in the tank. In other words, your at or passed the stocking limit of the tank now.

You don't need another fish. You need a larger tank. I recommend that you either be content with what yo have now or invest in a much larger tank.

 

[moze229]

You have a 20 gal tank, by the time you subtract for the live rock and sand, your down to about 15 gal. If your clown fish are 2 1/2" long, you have 5 inches of fish in the tank. In other words, your at or passed the stocking limit of the tank now.

You don't need another fish. You need a larger tank. I recommend that you either be content with what yo have now or invest in a much larger tank.

Hey DaveK!

Thanks for the advice, but I'd have to disagree. While I'm usually more cautious than others about adding too many fish, I think I've graduated past the point one inch of fish per five gallons. This is an ok but outdated guideline usually stressed to beginners. This is what causes people to put tangs in a 20 gallon tank. True bioload is based on a careful balance of knowing what type of fish you have vs the equipment and bacteria present in the system, and how quickly to safely add fish to that system. Since people just beginning can't figure all of that out right off the bat, they are told the inch per five gallon rule. It works - sometimes. I could dump fish waste out of several other peoples' systems into my tank and it would suck it right up, with a lot of it coming out in the skimmer, some consumed by the scrubber, some by the 15 year old live rock that's in the tank, and the corals would eat the rest. I don't think a blenny is going to crash my tank.

I've got the equipment to handle the bioload. I don't need a larger tank - I'm already invested in larger tanks that aren't set up in my unfinished basement

 

[DaveK]

Look at it this way. You are way way beyond the 1 inch of fish per 5 gal of water now. I used 2 1/2" per clown, but that very conservative if you have had them as long as you have. More likely, yours are much larger.

In effect you are running the tank on the edge. You could add another fish, and push things harder. It may work for awhile, but the least little thing that disrupts anything will result in a tank a very dead fish.

You believe you have an excellent filtration on the system. That's great, but it will not cope with a major crash.

I stand by my original advice. You don't need to listen to it.

 

[puffermike]

You might be able to get away with one more fish. Problem however is that no matter how much filtration you have the tank is very small. Small tanks lack sustainability in the long run. One day of overfeeding could release ammonia and dead fish will be the result. In my opinion it's a lot of work to have so much livestock in a small tank. I'm sure you could pull off another fish and everything will probably be alright but as DaveK said, one little thing could result in casualties. I've had a good bit of nano tanks in the past and I dealt with this problem. It didn't happen right away though.

Oh and if you don't mind.. you can clean out my collection cup in your tank anytime. I'm home after 5 on weekdays. :bouncer: :bouncer: :bouncer:

 

[Oxylebius]

I'm also inclined to not mess with your current bio-load. What you have going is working for you and the clowns. If you want to experiment with more fish waste and coral growth, you can always feed your fish more. The more food they eat the more they pop. Slowly provide more feedings per day or week. They will produce more pop for you. Also keep in mind that depending on the corals you have and what corals you plan to get, more fish and higher bio-load is not always the best way to go. My two cents...

 

[Snid]

Just to back up Dave a little more. The bio-load and filtration of a system are not a constant, and in fact all tanks gradually decline over time, even when adhering to the 1inch/5gallon rule, which I admit is more for beginners. What looks like it is working perfectly today in any system, will be different 5 years from now and will need adjustments to compensate. Those adjustments could be minor, or a quick situational fix, but we need to be aware of everything at all times. Even Professional Aquariums have to make minor or major adjustments over time. The Aquarium at my local zoo (The Columbus Zoo, well known for being one of the best zoos world-wide) is preparing for some major adjustments because it is due (or so the keepers say). [You should see their filtration system! It makes me drool...] Anyways, the point is, just because something looks right now, doesn't mean it is what is best for the long haul, and it is always best to try and lean more to the safer side of things as much as possible. Pushing boundaries, whether as an expert or a beginner, maybe isn't the best way to go, even if everything appears to be doing amazingly well.

 

[moze229]

In effect you are running the tank on the edge. You could add another fish, and push things harder. It may work for awhile, but the least little thing that disrupts anything will result in a tank a very dead fish.

Ahhhh … the sky is falling!

Seriously though, I really appreciate the comments and advice on this matter. However, the title and purpose of this thread is to recommend fish. I did not ask for advice about my system. Realistically, I haven't given enough information for anyone to make an accurate evaluation of my current setup. All we know is that I have a 20 gallon tank with a skimmer and scrubber. I see that the advice is well intended and for the most part accurate, but I'm not looking for that. I've been doing this long enough to know that I'm not taking MUCH of a risk by adding a fish.

To be fair, I did over exaggerate a little in my last post concerning dumping other peoples' waste into my tank. I understand that there is a limit, and that limit is based solely on the surface area available in any given setup. Since no one knows how much live rock I have or how deep and what type of substrate I have, evaluating my bioload cap by my tank size is like trying to guess the next set of lottery numbers. Filtration has little to do with bioload, believe it or not. Filtration removes waste (and other unwanted stuff) and particulates from the water, but doesn't harbor beneficial bacteria. (At least in our case. Unless you are running a wet/dry setup which gets into a whole other theory of things.)

I don't want to come off as unappreciative, because I am. I appreciate people looking out for me and making recommendations. But, I'd like to just get back to fish recommendations. If I 'crash' my system (what is that really anyway?) it will be my fault. Thanks again, everyone.

 

[Snid]

I'll play on both sides of the fence

What about a Chalk Bass. I think they are one of the most overlooked, beautiful fish that are hardy and even so durable that they are recommended for beginners. Here's mine...

Isn't he beautiful! They have a very entertaining attitude. They can be shy and curious at the same time. Dart fast for food. Never stay in the same place long. And when they are hiding in caves, they are always positioning themselves with their heads peeking out so that they can see you, therefore you always see them.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the fence. Take no offense to what anyone has suggested. One of the reasons why I prefer these forums over others is because most everyone here cares more about the fish than the owners. Exactly the position I want the people I confide in to have. I am human and fallible, therefor because I am taking the lives of innocent animals into my own hands, I want people double checking me all the time. I'd rather have people disagree with me sometimes than everyone just go around saying "Yeah! Do that! Maybe I'll do that too!" Plus, we do have a lot of beginners following every single one of these threads, so we have to consider what they may read as well.

 

[moze229]

I'll play on both sides of the fence

What about a Chalk Bass. I think they are one of the most overlooked, beautiful fish that are hardy and even so durable that they are recommended for beginners. Here's mine...

Isn't he beautiful! They have a very entertaining attitude. They can be shy and curious at the same time. Dart fast for food. Never stay in the same place long. And when they are hiding in caves, they are always positioning themselves with their heads peeking out so that they can see you, therefore you always see them.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the fence. Take no offense to what anyone has suggested. One of the reasons why I prefer these forums over others is because most everyone here cares more about the fish than the owners. Exactly the position I want the people I confide in to have. I am human and fallible, therefor because I am taking the lives of innocent animals into my own hands, I want people double checking me all the time. I'd rather have people disagree with me sometimes than everyone just go around saying "Yeah! Do that! Maybe I'll do that too!" Plus, we do have a lot of beginners following every single one of these threads, so we have to consider what they may read as well.

Hey snid!

Thanks for the recommendation. I'm actually not familiar with that fish. I'll have to look into it. Neat lookin' little feller.

You're right. I should consider those who may not have experience taking things a little further than the norm. I tend to do that sometimes, but I rarely get into trouble because I know what to look for before problems start. But again, that's not what this thread was about. And, I will never have a problem with anyone disagreeing with me. I actually like that. That's how I learn and retain the little bit that I do know. No offense or defense taken from those who have expressed their opinions. But if someone disagrees with me, they have to expect me to defend my position, which I feel that is all that's happened here.

Thanks again!

 

[Snid]

Hang Loose, Braddah!