hey! new to salt water... got a 100g tank! lol

torahtrance

New Member
hey all!

I got my tank last week, and I was researching my filteration options, and I found santa monica talking about his algae scrubbers and I knew thats the ticket to a cheaper long term system for me! So I'm registering here as my homebase.

I will post some pics a little later on, but so far I have about 100g tank, perfect 1.024 salt water, about 27kg of live rock (I see a few tiny spots of bright red on them appearing now, is that the coralline?!!). I have a little sump...

Its a cool little setup!
 

Mike Johnson

Well-Known Member
Welcome to the family at Reef Sanctuary. You'll be glad that you went with a larger tank, much more forgiving with accidental changes. We're here to help so ask here first before you make purchases and save yourself a lot of regret.
 

torahtrance

New Member
well my first question would be, I bought 2 LED fixtures from the local reef guys, they said they are using them for all their aquariums, one has RGB leds, and the other has Blue/White, they light the tank up nice, but they are small and I think I need more. I dont wanna spend a lot of more money so I was thinking about getting a good LED strip and making up something myself... Not needed?

I want to have cool looking colourful corals. I really like the LPS ones I believe, that flow back and forth. I dont think I'm really going to be looking at SPS for now, they are harder to take care of I read. I just want the really cool looking flowing ones!

Also I think with an algae scrubber I can have a lot more bioload in the aquarium as long as I have a big enough algae scrubber to take care of the ammonia and nit's correct?? In a 100g tank how many fish traditionally can I support?
 

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
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to ReefSanctuary, a real Sanctuary of reef forums, with lots of very nice members
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Start a new tank thread & share your tank with us so we can follow along - we love pics :)
 

Mike Johnson

Well-Known Member
One inch of fish per five gallons of water is the general rule; use grown up size for reference. You're going to use a skimmer, too, right? I'd need to know what the lights were before I could answer the lighting question.
It's smart to decide what fish you want in a tank before you put your first one in. Study the different fish for care needs and compatibility.
A good place to study the different fishes and soft corals and so on is here: http://www.liveaquaria.com/DiversDen/

Oh, I forgot; ammonia should never be an issue once a tank has a nitrogen cycle established. Each fish should be added a couple weeks apart, starting with the least aggressive and most aggressive put in last.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
... I found santa monica talking about his algae scrubbers and I knew thats the ticket to a cheaper long term system for me! ...
... I have about 100g tank, perfect 1.024 salt water, about 27kg of live rock ...

well my first question would be, I bought 2 LED fixtures from the local reef guys, they said they are using them for all their aquariums, one has RGB leds, and the other has Blue/White, they light the tank up nice, but they are small and I think I need more. I dont wanna spend a lot of more money so I was thinking about getting a good LED strip and making up something myself... Not needed?

I want to have cool looking colourful corals. I really like the LPS ones I believe, that flow back and forth. I dont think I'm really going to be looking at SPS for now, they are harder to take care of I read. I just want the really cool looking flowing ones!

Also I think with an algae scrubber I can have a lot more bioload in the aquarium as long as I have a big enough algae scrubber to take care of the ammonia and nit's correct?? In a 100g tank how many fish traditionally can I support?

Welcome to the group!

I'm not trying to play "beat up on the new guy", but I can't help think that you have "fallen in love" with algae scrubbing. This can be a very valuable addition to a reef systems, and in some case can be used as the only filtration system. However, after actually using algae scrubbing alone for years, and then finding I got better results when I added a skimmer, and better still when I switched to a berlin sump, I'd recommend you use a more conventional filtration system, and also add an algae scrubber. This way you get the benefits of both.

You are also going to find that there is a lot of hype in a lot of equipment use for SW. It's not limited to algae scrubbers. You have been warned (grin).

You need a lot more live rock. You want about 1lb per gal of water. It need not be all live rock, some could be dry base rock. This is your biological filtration system, and it's best not to skimp on it, and it's best to add it all at once.

To get good LED lighting, your going to need good LED fixtures. The low cost strips are just not going to give you the light you need. There are some LED kits out there. If you have some experience with electronic projects, you could consider them. The bottom line is that you need not get the high end expensive stuff, but LED lighting is not going to be cheep either. You might be better off with T5 lighting.

LPS and SPS corals don't do much flowing back and forth. You might be talking about soft corals, but they don't have as much in the way of color.

You can not have a larger bio load just because you have algae scrubbing, and there are a lot more factors involved than simply the ability of the system to reduce ammonia. Generally the old rule still applies. 1" of fish per 5 gal of water. This means that a 100 gal tank can hold about 20 total inches of fish. You also need to allow for growth. That would typically work out to about eight fish that are about 2 1/2 long.

As a note, there are people that go beyond this stocking limit, but most of the time this results in dead livestock. Don't press your luck, especially when your just starting off.

Good luck.
 

torahtrance

New Member
Welcome to the group!

I'm not trying to play "beat up on the new guy", but I can't help think that you have "fallen in love" with algae scrubbing. This can be a very valuable addition to a reef systems, and in some case can be used as the only filtration system. However, after actually using algae scrubbing alone for years, and then finding I got better results when I added a skimmer, and better still when I switched to a berlin sump, I'd recommend you use a more conventional filtration system, and also add an algae scrubber. This way you get the benefits of both.

You are also going to find that there is a lot of hype in a lot of equipment use for SW. It's not limited to algae scrubbers. You have been warned (grin).

You need a lot more live rock. You want about 1lb per gal of water. It need not be all live rock, some could be dry base rock. This is your biological filtration system, and it's best not to skimp on it, and it's best to add it all at once.

To get good LED lighting, your going to need good LED fixtures. The low cost strips are just not going to give you the light you need. There are some LED kits out there. If you have some experience with electronic projects, you could consider them. The bottom line is that you need not get the high end expensive stuff, but LED lighting is not going to be cheep either. You might be better off with T5 lighting.

LPS and SPS corals don't do much flowing back and forth. You might be talking about soft corals, but they don't have as much in the way of color.

You can not have a larger bio load just because you have algae scrubbing, and there are a lot more factors involved than simply the ability of the system to reduce ammonia. Generally the old rule still applies. 1" of fish per 5 gal of water. This means that a 100 gal tank can hold about 20 total inches of fish. You also need to allow for growth. That would typically work out to about eight fish that are about 2 1/2 long.

As a note, there are people that go beyond this stocking limit, but most of the time this results in dead livestock. Don't press your luck, especially when your just starting off.

Good luck.

Thanks for the intros guys!

I would rather not get a protein skimmer if I can avoid it. I've read that certain things in the aquarium eat the matter left over, and you really just have to worry about ammonia and nitrates... Of course I'll proceed slowly and if I truly need one I'll get one.

I can't believe in this massive tank I can only have 8 fish! In my 35 gallon freshwater tank I had like 15 fish and no deaths for months at a time!

Air bubbler is for fresh water only? I thought it adds oxygen? Also I put the air bubbler in my sump so it will prevent the aenerobic bacteria from growing too much.

About corals I want... I dont know much but these look awesome:
Blue Green Sympodium Coral

I want basically corals like that. Long flowing ones that have insane colors!! thats all I care about. I want insane colors all over my tank! Flowing long tentacles that you just sit at in awe for hours at a time! I find SPS at this point to be pretty boring, but i'm sure as I get deeper I'll see why everyone likes them so much. I want a lot of movement in my tank, a lot of colors, and a lot of flowing wavey stuff. LOL I feel like im 15.

Also I have 3 young kids, so I want them to really enjoy it and learn a lot from the experience. Also for my wife, I know she will love to see all the beautiful colors and everything in general..

So I guess so far:
Sympodium corals
Bright Green Toadstool Coral
ORA Aquacultured Vargas Blue Cespitularia Leather
various polyps
frogspawn and frammer corals
hammer corals
elegance corals
torch corals
bright sun corals

All those corals I just looked at look so amazing I'm still shocked such things exist in the first place!

About fish......... I have no idea at all!!! I guess I will need some clownfish for certain corals yes? Also they are like 'nemo' im sure the kids will love them.. Any really cool fish! I love how the lionfish looks, but I read that its poisonous and eats other fish.... Anything really majestic would be awesome I think - and did I mention colorful?? :)

Besides corals and fish, I know there are lots of other lifeforms in the tank I can look at. Everyone mentions the CUC, I'm guessing some shrimp and snails? I remember a year ago reading that there is a certain type of CUC that will create like a little car wash and the fish will line up to get cleaned by them, I definetly would love to get that!
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the intros guys!

I would rather not get a protein skimmer if I can avoid it. I've read that certain things in the aquarium eat the matter left over, and you really just have to worry about ammonia and nitrates... Of course I'll proceed slowly and if I truly need one I'll get one.

I can't believe in this massive tank I can only have 8 fish! In my 35 gallon freshwater tank I had like 15 fish and no deaths for months at a time!

Air bubbler is for fresh water only? I thought it adds oxygen? Also I put the air bubbler in my sump so it will prevent the aenerobic bacteria from growing too much.

About corals I want... I dont know much but these look awesome:
Blue Green Sympodium Coral

I want basically corals like that. Long flowing ones that have insane colors!! thats all I care about. I want insane colors all over my tank! Flowing long tentacles that you just sit at in awe for hours at a time! I find SPS at this point to be pretty boring, but i'm sure as I get deeper I'll see why everyone likes them so much. I want a lot of movement in my tank, a lot of colors, and a lot of flowing wavey stuff. LOL I feel like im 15.

Also I have 3 young kids, so I want them to really enjoy it and learn a lot from the experience. Also for my wife, I know she will love to see all the beautiful colors and everything in general..

So I guess so far:
Sympodium corals
Bright Green Toadstool Coral
ORA Aquacultured Vargas Blue Cespitularia Leather
various polyps
frogspawn and frammer corals
hammer corals
elegance corals
torch corals
bright sun corals

All those corals I just looked at look so amazing I'm still shocked such things exist in the first place!

About fish......... I have no idea at all!!! I guess I will need some clownfish for certain corals yes? Also they are like 'nemo' im sure the kids will love them.. Any really cool fish! I love how the lionfish looks, but I read that its poisonous and eats other fish.... Anything really majestic would be awesome I think - and did I mention colorful?? :)

Besides corals and fish, I know there are lots of other lifeforms in the tank I can look at. Everyone mentions the CUC, I'm guessing some shrimp and snails? I remember a year ago reading that there is a certain type of CUC that will create like a little car wash and the fish will line up to get cleaned by them, I definetly would love to get that!

I see many beginner mistakes here that are going to cause you major problems. I have posted this many time before, but it bears repeating, especially the part about getting a couple of good books on the subject.

Davek's Standard Lecture #1 – Advice for people new to the hobby

The very first thing you want to do, before you spend any money on equipment or livestock, is get yourself a few good books on state of the art reef systems. Then read and study them, so you have some idea about what your are doing.

Here are two to start with -

The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner
The New Marine Aquarium by Michael Paleta <---This book has an especially good section on fish suited to someone starting off in the hobby.

This is information that you can not easily obtain from the net. While it's out there, it's all over the place, and there is a massive volume of information. There is also a lot of bad information out there.

Once you get that done, plan or rethink your system. What do you want to keep? Do you have the necessary equipment? Do you have the knowledge to keep the livestock you want? Do you have the time to dedicate to keeping a system and it's livestock?

Many salt water fish, corals and inverts often have very specific requirements. Some are extremely difficult to keep alive, even if you do everything right. Before you get anything, research it, and be sure it will work out in your system.

Lastly, you will find that most LFS people are clueless when it comes to SW systems. Verify their advice, until they prove otherwise.

... End of standard lecture.

As for your specific post.

If you want a yes or no answer, yes, it is possible to run a large tank without a skimmer. That means possible. It doesn't mean it's a good idea. A good skimmer is so highly desirable that I'd say the vast majority of people keeping tanks this size use one. For the people that don't, look for them to be keeping a very unusual or specialized kind of system. I highly recommend you reconsider this.

SW systems are a completely different ballpark from their FW counterparts. Yes, the stocking limit for SW is typically about 1/5 of what you can put in a FW system. So yes, believe what your being told. If you don't want to believe me, consult the books I mentioned above.

Air stones and similar bubblers are just about worthless in SW. In a reef system you have massive circulation. That will give you fantastic gas exchange. Teh addition of air stones will not add to this. In addition in SW they clog easily, and produce massive amounts of salt creep from the water they splash. Not recommended.

Of the corals your looking at your selections are generally ok. Two exceptions though. Elegance coral is difficult to keep, and not a beginner coral. The sun corals have very specialized feeding requirements, and each polyp should be fed. You just can drop in some food for this coral. I recommend you choose other corals.

With SW fish and corals, you need to research each item you want to add. It's very easy to add something that will cause a problem for one reason or another. Some things to be on the lookout for are compatibility with your other livestock, livestock that will eat your other livestock, livestock that grows too big, corals and such that end up becoming "weeds" because of how they grow and take over. This is one of the major problem areas with many LFS. The either do not know about what they are selling or they choose not to inform you. Either way you end up loosing.
 

wscttwolfe

Active Member
I would rather not get a protein skimmer if I can avoid it. I've read that certain things in the aquarium eat the matter left over, and you really just have to worry about ammonia and nitrates... Of course I'll proceed slowly and if I truly need one I'll get one.

You will find that your life will be much easier with a skimmer. You are correct to worry about nitrate levels, and the skimmer will help keep them low. There are other ways, but they are much more specialized.

This may have been said already, but PLEASE plan on waiting at least 1-2 months before you start adding your first fish to the tank. There are many biological processes that need to happen in your tank, which take time.

The tank in the video you posted is an awesome tank, but know that it probably took the owner at least a couple years to get to that point, and she almost certainly did so using a protein skimmer.

Enjoy the journey. The path towards getting to an amazing tank can be just as fulfilling as the result.
 

ReefLady

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Welcome to RS! I think you've gotten some great advice here. I would just add that a reef tank is a journey, not a destination. If our preferences, desires and vision for the tank didn't change up SOME over time, then this would be less of a hobby and more of a simple "set it up and then admire it" kind of situation. Your preferences in fish and corals will change, your ability to keep them will change, so while it's a good idea to have a vision you're working toward, don't be afraid to change it as the information you receive (both from other reefers and from your tank itself) changes!

Oh... and have fun!!!!

Travis
 

Mike Johnson

Well-Known Member
Well, you can have a tank like that. A few of those softies in there would spread like wildflowers. So either that person maticulously prunes them or the corals are bought and staged. But that kind of tank is attainable with a little patience.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
It begs to question what kind of ventilation, dehumidifier are these size tanks using?

Agreed! I'd like a tour of the filtration room.

That is an excellent tank, but if if money were no object, I'd want something like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLRubZGWXiY

And, yes, this is a private, in home reef system, and the owner does most of the maintenance on it himself.

If you look at the comments in the youtube link, there are links to threads and stuff about that system. It's not too much different than many other reef systems, but on a much larger scale.
 
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