Help with GHA & Red Slime Cyano.

[Pawlu]

My tank 38Gallon Nuvo has been running for approx 7 months now , and over the last month or so I started having problems with Red Slime Cyno and Green Hair Algae (sometimes brown looking). I know the main causes for algae outbreaks so to mention a few things up front: tank is not overstocked, or overfed in any way. In fact in it understocked! Water changes are done every 2 weeks 15% with an overflow cleanup weekly. Water changes are done with RO water only, always using the same salt mixes. Water parameters are the same as always with the exception that due to the summer my average tank temp is 2degrees warmer. I also put fresh Pura Phoslock every month in the overflow, and recently doubled the dosage of it.


The red slime algae appears to be killing off my montipora, at one point it would appear in a matter of hours carpeting the bottom of the tank, now it tends to stick to coral and small areas on the rock. The GHA comes and goes but has recently started to choke out a group of Yellow Star Polyps for me.

I would like some advice on how to best start tackling this issue, here are a few of the culprits which I believe could be causing the issue of too many nutrients:

1) My Protein skimmer is a cheap basic air driven model (CombiSkim (Wattronix) CS218) and it takes nearly 2 weeks for it to get full, when it does its a liquid skim with some froth.
2) The stock water pump does not have the power it use to have and the water going through the overflow has reduced by at least 30 to 40% over the last few months.
3) I use filter foam in the overflow that I wash out weekly and replace every 2 weeks.
4) My Lighting is too strong (see my AI Sol configuration below), although as mentioned this was not an issue for 4 months, the outbreak started pretty much as the house warmed up in summer.


For a link to the build thread of my tank please go here: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...e-marine-nano-reef-project-4.html#post1162586

Here are some pics of the GHA and Red Slime Cyno

Red Slime on Montipora:


GHA







My Sol Settings:



Thanks for any input and help.

 

[reefer gladness]

It sounds like you are aware of the culprits of GHA and cyano but need to do more to address the problems.

You may not think you're overstocked or overfeeding but it would be helpful to know so we can eliminate that as an issue. The simple fact is that you have exceeded your tanks current capability to export nutrients. As you know, it's a balance between nutrient import and nutrient export. If you're not exporting enough nutrients you need to make some changes.

First off I would increase water changes to 5 gallons weekly and vacuum the substrate each time. You've identified a pump with reduced flow, time to dig that bad boy out of the tank and clean it up. If it has a sponge filter it's clogged for sure. Not sure about the filter foam but 2 weeks sounds a bit long and it may also be a nitrate trap.

Increasing the amount of water flow helps to prevent the detritus from settling so it can be picked up by whatever protein skimmer you end of with. Not sure what you have for a clean-up crew but that's another piece of the puzzle. You can reduce the light period if you want but to me this is purely an issue of nutrient import vs nutrient export.

 

[Choff]

You said normal numbers, but what are your Phosphate and Nitrates reading? What kit do you use to test phosphates? Do you monitor PH? If so, how has it trended over this time? Higher temps can lower o2 saturation and if you closed up your house to turn on the AC your CO2 in the house will go up and drop your PH as well (I just watched mine drop from 8.2 to 7.9 and then back to 8.2 simply by opening and closing all the windows in the house). PH drops can encourage cyano growth.

I just had my sand bed carpeted in the stuff. I also just bought a new skimmer and it wasn't performing very well. Between the skimmer, the PH and my laziness over the summer to rely more on flake food my phosphates and nitrates shot up. To remedy, I did lots of water changes, started using GFO, blanketed my tank for 3 days and started to vinegar dose. Tank looks very good now. Still some cyano on the bed, but it's no longer growing and may be shrinking.

 

[Pawlu]

Reefer Gladness: thanks for your post, ok in terms of stock, all I have is 2 clown fish and 1 watchman goby, the rest are all crabs, shrimps, snails etc. They are fed twice a day, in the morning a little dried food, and in the evening couple shots from a small pipete of frozen food, probably about 5% of a frozen block size.

I tried increasing my water changes to 15% weekly but it was not helping and I returned back to twice weekly due to lack of time on my behalf. If you think 5% water changes are better for tackling the issue I could give it a try.

Water flow is definitely an issue and I believe one of the main problems, as for sponge filters, what other option do I have, I need something to capture the dirt other than the skimmer otherwise the overflows would be empty except for the carbon and GFO..

Choff: thanks for your post, yes I have been turning the A/C on and off and have noticed the ph go up and down, I have a reef keeper lite with a PH Probe and noticed this. As for water testing I use Salifert, I will post a fresh update this week with the latest results, but there was negligible reading in terms of Phosphates and nothing for nitrates. What do you mean by blanketed?

Thanks

 

[Mayja]

What do you mean by blanketed?

He completely covered his aquarium to not allow any light penetration for three days.

 

[ddelozier]

Its already been stated, but it bares repeating. remove sponge media, it turns into a nitrate factory. Replace with Rubble LR. If floss is needed, synthetic pillow stuffing works well, just toss it and replace weekly. Water changes, raising the flow, and skimming are the lions share of your nutrient export. Now all that said, once the algae is there, you could do a 100% water change and it might not cure the problem. Cyano loves low flow and high nutrients. GHA likes low or high flow and high nutrients. The common thread between them since you ahve both is High nutrients. Test your Freshly mixed SW, If the mix is a bad batch or has been contaminated, you can be adding nutrients.

OK Treatment: Cover the sides/top of the tank with a blanket or black trash bags, to block out ALL LIGHT. Leave it covered for 3-5 days. Drastic water change. Do 10g water change 2x a day for 10-14 days. As the lack of light kills the cyano/GHA, those nutrients will be released. Most sure way to get rid of them is flushing them out. I have cured a tank of GHA for a friend in 10 days with this method. 5 day blakout and 10 days of 30% water changes 2x a day. Up your flow by either cleaning the pump or adding a powerhead will help with the cyano. During water changes, suck out any cyano you can get to without dismanteling your rockwork.

 

[jsgarrido]

i just recently have the same problem only it looks like its in the last stage of cyno cuz its dissolving with the bubble stings attach to them i try getting it off my tank but the next day it comes back i think its because i changed my light timmers and i think the main lights are on for 10hr i only had them on for 8hr before . i will change them and get an update. but how are your light time each day? maybe thats whats it.:dryer:

 

[reefer gladness]

I tried increasing my water changes to 15% weekly but it was not helping and I returned back to twice weekly due to lack of time on my behalf. If you think 5% water changes are better for tackling the issue I could give it a try.

Your test results for nitrates and phosphates may be a bit misleading as the nuisance algaes will be consuming them both. It takes time to correct these issues so don't expect instant results. I would be doing 10% or preferably 5 gallon water changes weekly in a tank that size and probably one good 25-30% water change to start. Maybe you can get away with every 2 weeks later on when you get this problem under control.

You can use the sponge filter but you should be prepared to clean it more often. When my RSM 130D was fully stocked and running I had to rinse out the sponge filter every 2-3 days. Same story in my 56 gallon, I used filter socks in the sump but still had to swap them out every 2-3 days. Everyone's mileage will vary of course but the proof is in the results.

I think you're on the right track, just attack it on all fronts and be patient. Choff is spot on with his observations too in my experience. Never done vinegar dosing but heat is definitely a factor that can encourage nuisance algaes.

 

[DaveK]

...
1) My Protein skimmer is a cheap basic air driven model (CombiSkim (Wattronix) CS218) and it takes nearly 2 weeks for it to get full, when it does its a liquid skim with some froth.
2) The stock water pump does not have the power it use to have and the water going through the overflow has reduced by at least 30 to 40% over the last few months.
3) I use filter foam in the overflow that I wash out weekly and replace every 2 weeks.
4) My Lighting is too strong (see my AI Sol configuration below), although as mentioned this was not an issue for 4 months, the outbreak started pretty much as the house warmed up in summer. ...

...They are fed twice a day, in the morning a little dried food, and in the evening couple shots from a small pipete of frozen food, probably about 5% of a frozen block size. ...

I generally agree with the previous posts. Large partial water changes are the way to resolve this issue.

It does sound like your skimmer is either in need of adjustment, or needs to be upgraded. If a skimmer is working right, it will pull out a lot of "glop".

Take the stock water pump apart and clean it, especially the impeller. If it's loosing that much flow, it's really gunked up, or something is blocking it. If you clean everything and it still flows poorly, consider replacing it. An additional circulation pump or two in the tank may help.

Get rid of the foam, or at least clean it every few days. If you do choose to remove it, I don't recommend replacing it with live rock rubble, since that will also become a nitrate factory.

Cut your photo period back to about 8 hours. It's not a solution in itself, but it can sure help the unwanted algae really grow. I would also set the lighting so it only goes to about 70% of max, for now. Once the algae issues are resolved you can ram it back up.

I suspect your over feeding. For the time being cut the feedings back to once every other day. Once the problems are resolved, you can ramp it up.

 

[Bearjohnson]

All great advice ^

I'll add my $.02 as well what the heck

Most nuisance algae, once in the tank and has begun to thrive is tough to get rid of period. You can test 0.00 across the board including phosphates and still watch the algae grow day after day.

Some algae and especially cyanobacteria (not actually an algae) will actually thrive off of its own waste thereby literally feeding itself on a daily basis.

I've never experience or known anyone who has simply darkened the tank for several days that has achieved any success in helping rid nuisance algae.


1. A great skimmer is nice to have however, to me, it sounds like your skimmer is doing it's job in relation to your bio load. If it wasn't keeping up it would be developing skimmate every day all day unless it's completely worthless. In that case then it's time to upgrade.
2. If you can clean your water pump, vinegar will do the trick in no time at all. It also wouldn't hurt to think about an additional powerhead. If possible?
3. Myself and others included will always say toss the filter foam but again, if your nitrates are well below acceptable numbers then obviously that is not your problem either.
4. Your AI SOL's are also not the the problem.

That green algae that I think you're referring to as hair algae in the picture looks like bryopsis.


You mentioned that all of your parameters are OK....What are you testing for and what are the readings when tested?

Calcium = ?
Alkalinity = ?
Magnesium = ?
Phosphates = ?
Nitrites = ?
Nitrates = ?

 

[Don Quixote]

Try culturing some faster growing macros like C. Prolifera, and add some large turbo snails even temporarily to eliminate the algae in a snap!

 

[Tigersref]

this is a silly question, but have you recently changed your brand of salt? Reason i ask is because i was researching and came across a few articles/posts where folks complain of getting cyano after switching to Coral Pro Salt.

I recently started getting a cyano bloom curiously enough, it coincides with my recent increase of water changes ( i was changing 10% every 2-3 days in my attempt to get my calc levels to normal as they were low). oddly enough, i use Coral pro salt and am wondering if this increased use has anything to do with my cyano bloom.

 

[Pawlu]

Hi everybody and thanks again for all the input and advice, sorry for this brief response but I work late Tues and Wed, will try and respond to most questions on Thursday. But just to mention a couple of things, no salt has never been changed (Instant Ocean Reef Crystals), and the mix is salinity checked and temp matched before being added. I will be posting my latest parameters later this week. As for removing the sponge media, I only have a piece at the top right were the water from the overflow comes in the rest is filter floss (similar to pillow stuffing), its the stock stuff from Big Als. As per most people's advice I might just remove it all, upgrade to a better skimmer, increase flow and rely on the skimmer to remove the bulk of it. It just seems strange to me to have an empty overflow in terms of media with the exception of Carbon and GFO, but then again, i'm no expert.

 

[Pawlu]

I apologize for the long delay in replying to this post, had a lot of major life events going on and simply could not keep up. However things are now settling down and we can get back to the fishy business! Over the last few months I was able to keep the GHA and Cyno under control but not eradicate it. I now have the time and money to put into getting rid of it once and for all. To start off with here are my parameters:

Calcuim: 435ppm
Alkalinity: 3meg/l
Magnesium: 1330ppm
Phosphate: <0.02ppm
Ammonia:<0.01ppm
Nitrite: <0.01ppm
Nitrate: <2ppm

These are the major changes that have taken place of the last few weeks and which have already started showing good results in further reduction of the bad algae.

1) Added an extra small micro wave maker to increase water circulation in some dead spots.
2) Re-calibrated temp down a couple of degrees, from 79F to 77/77.5F
3) Cleaned pump intakes
4) Replaced air driven skimmer air stone
5) Increased water changes to 15% on a weekly basis vs bi weekly.
6) Reducing peak output of AI Sols Super blue down by about 12% across the spectrum.

Now for some controversial changes:

1) I have added an extra media basket and took out a flat piece of rock that I had in one of the overflow chambers and put it into the main tank. I now have media baskets on either end of the overflow intakes, both baskets have 4 layers of sponge type medium going from very course down to very fine. I am cleaning these out every morning by rinsing them under regular tap water, then squeezing as much water out of them and placing back into media basket. I am dumping the dirty water into a bucket simply to see how much crap I am pulling out. In the first few days of doing this I was amazed at how much dirt is coming out, the water is a disgusting brown color.
2) Even though my current TDS reading of my RO water is 1, I am running my salt water mix tank through a small canister filter containing some activated carbon, phosphate removal media and polishing pads for about 24hours prior to placing into main tank.


I plan on trying to slowly vacuum the sandbed on the next water changes too, although I always turkey baste it prior to water changes. All the above so far seems to be doing the trick, as things are going I am optimistic that by the end of this month I would have conquered the problem and will be able to finally add some new coral. I will try and post some pics when I get a chance.

I was also hoping to stock up on some clean up crew however the extreme cold weather here is keeping us indoors.

 

[Pawlu]

Things still going well, I have about an 80% reduction in HA and about a 50% reduction in Cyno, we are so far winning the battle but it is still not over yet.

 

[ziggy]

Have you made any changes to your lighting schedule? Perhaps too much light?

 

[Pawlu]

Yes I have made changes to my light, reduce the intensity, however that was more to deal with loss of color on my Montipora, the change has helped and I am getting coloration back.

 

[Creekview]

Have you considered an algae scrubber? I can only speak to my experience, but I have completely eliminated nuisance algae in the DT.

 

[Pawlu]

Have you considered an algae scrubber? I can only speak to my experience, but I have completely eliminated nuisance algae in the DT.

I had tried that last year however since I do not have a sump (Its a Nuvo 38 Gallon with an overflow) the light from the fuge was having the opposite effect (creating a new kind of algae), plus I could never get anything to grow properly and ended up with plant pieces in the display tank. Then again I was still new to all of this, and I am tempted to try purchasing an external fuge and give it another shot.

 

[Creekview]

Mine was initially in a HOB aquaclear110 on a 40 breeder. Worked OK. Then I tried an in-tank config in the 55 that replaced the 40. It now runs in one compartment of a 6 gallon 3 compartment acrylic refugium. I've been running scrubbers for a year now. Some things I learned:

1. Be patient, scrubbers take a little while to get started.
2. Flow is just as important as aeration of the collector screen.
3. If it's growing in the scrubber, it's not growing in your tank.
4. I adopted my old lawn maintenance philosophy from living in Florida. If it's green and growing, just mow it. I never worried about trying to grow the "right" grass........

My scrubber experiments have resulted in a system that is stable, grows corals, has happy fish, and lots of life in the water for the corals and fish to feed on. No skimmer, no filters, no GFO, no carbon.....nothing but live rock, deep substrate, and a scrubber.