Help Needed!

[DanSReef]

Hellow RS... I have had a new 92 Gal Corner Bow Front tank in process since before Thanksgiving(see my build thread in my signature). Up until a few weeks ago... I have been really pretty happy with the progress of the tank.

Of late... I have been noticing I am loosing color... and am now seeing some tissue recession on of all things... my ORA Birds nests and other SPS corals. I have lost a coupole of millis a couple months ago to RTN... I pitched them and did not even try to save parts.

Water parameters seem perfect and are very stable. The last measurements are:
Phosphate 0 +/-0
Nitrate 0 +/- 0
Mg 1350 +/- 50
Calcium 440 +/-10
Alkalinity 9 +/-1
PH 8.32 +/- .1
Temp 78 +/- .4
Salinity 1.025 +/-.001

The only exception to the stability is the PH which moved up about .20 to 8.45 for a couple of days when I opened the windows in the house. I do dose Kalk in my top off and have reduced my amount to get the PH back in line...they now seem stable at about +/- .1 of course with some daily fluctations with the light cycle... otherwise... I think the water parameters have remained very stable.

I am using the Apollo LED Dimmable on an Apex Controller. I really have not done too much as far as change is concerned to the tank. I did buy a couple of small clown gobies that love to swim amongst the coral banches... which yes could irrate the coral.... but cause the coral to basically begin to die... that should not be the cause. I cannot find any pests to speak of in the tank like flat worms or nudis. As for fish... I have three green chromis, four sunrise chromis, 1 bi color blenny, 1 flame tail blenny, 2 onyx clowns... There is a nice size clean up crew.

What is wierd is that I had terrific growth on many of the same corals that now look to be declining. My forest fire digi was growing like crazy... as was a sunset monti... both have now lost color and are starting to bleach out. My green slimmer which has had significant growth since I moved it into the tank... is now loosing color... I got a spongde (sp?) from ETR that was doing terrific... growing like crazy... now it too looks like it is going south. Now I have my birdsnest that are starting to look bad.... and I am at my wits end.

So... I guess I am looking for help trouble shooting:

A) can you have an environment that is too low of nutrient? My goals was to have an ULN system... and I run a bio pellet reactor as well as a carbon and GFO reactors. Yesterday I shut off the GFO and Carbon Reactors...thinking maybe that was overkill at this point.
B) I dose with Reef Plus vitamins and Amino Acids... at the prescribed dose
C) I have a very healthy population of pods...
D) I have little to no algae in the tank as the cleanup crew has done its job.
E) I am running bare bottom... which has not caused any problems with my water parameters...
D) I feed coral food by Azoo and feed phyto as well as spot feed with Reef Chili....

My LED light schedule is:
Blues ramp up 0% to 100% over 3 hours and then 100% for 7 hours then ramp down over three hours from 100% to 0% for a total period of 13 hours. This has not changed in months.
Whites ramp 0% to 90% over 4 hours and then 90% to 0% over then next 4 hours... for a total of 8 hours. Again... this has not changed much... I have gone up or down 5-10% in intensity to find the right color mix for me. This should not have caused issues... so I would think. I do not run moonlights at all... Again... nothing has really changed much over the last couple of months on the lighting... so... not sure this is something that could cause the seemingly sudden reverse in progress...

So... I am open to ideas... I am really in need of some help...

Thanks!

 

[sasquatch]

Hellow RS... I have had a new 92 Gal Corner Bow Front tank in process since before Thanksgiving(see my build thread in my signature). Up until a few weeks ago... I have been really pretty happy with the progress of the tank.

Of late... I have been noticing I am loosing color... and am now seeing some tissue recession on of all things... my ORA Birds nests and other SPS corals. I have lost a coupole of millis a couple months ago to RTN... I pitched them and did not even try to save parts.

Water parameters seem perfect and are very stable. The last measurements are:
Phosphate 0 +/-0
Nitrate 0 +/- 0
Mg 1350 +/- 50
Calcium 440 +/-10
Alkalinity 9 +/-1
PH 8.32 +/- .1
Temp 78 +/- .4
Salinity 1.025 +/-.001

The only exception to the stability is the PH which moved up about .20 to 8.45 for a couple of days when I opened the windows in the house. I do dose Kalk in my top off and have reduced my amount to get the PH back in line...they now seem stable at about +/- .1 of course with some daily fluctations with the light cycle... otherwise... I think the water parameters have remained very stable.

I am using the Apollo LED Dimmable on an Apex Controller. I really have not done too much as far as change is concerned to the tank. I did buy a couple of small clown gobies that love to swim amongst the coral banches... which yes could irrate the coral.... but cause the coral to basically begin to die... that should not be the cause. I cannot find any pests to speak of in the tank like flat worms or nudis. As for fish... I have three green chromis, four sunrise chromis, 1 bi color blenny, 1 flame tail blenny, 2 onyx clowns... There is a nice size clean up crew.

What is wierd is that I had terrific growth on many of the same corals that now look to be declining. My forest fire digi was growing like crazy... as was a sunset monti... both have now lost color and are starting to bleach out. My green slimmer which has had significant growth since I moved it into the tank... is now loosing color... I got a spongde (sp?) from ETR that was doing terrific... growing like crazy... now it too looks like it is going south. Now I have my birdsnest that are starting to look bad.... and I am at my wits end.

So... I guess I am looking for help trouble shooting:

A) can you have an environment that is too low of nutrient? My goals was to have an ULN system... and I run a bio pellet reactor as well as a carbon and GFO reactors. Yesterday I shut off the GFO and Carbon Reactors...thinking maybe that was overkill at this point.
B) I dose with Reef Plus vitamins and Amino Acids... at the prescribed dose
C) I have a very healthy population of pods...
D) I have little to no algae in the tank as the cleanup crew has done its job.
E) I am running bare bottom... which has not caused any problems with my water parameters...
D) I feed coral food by Azoo and feed phyto as well as spot feed with Reef Chili....

My LED light schedule is:
Blues ramp up 0% to 100% over 3 hours and then 100% for 7 hours then ramp down over three hours from 100% to 0% for a total period of 13 hours. This has not changed in months.
Whites ramp 0% to 90% over 4 hours and then 90% to 0% over then next 4 hours... for a total of 8 hours. Again... this has not changed much... I have gone up or down 5-10% in intensity to find the right color mix for me. This should not have caused issues... so I would think. I do not run moonlights at all... Again... nothing has really changed much over the last couple of months on the lighting... so... not sure this is something that could cause the seemingly sudden reverse in progress...

So... I am open to ideas... I am really in need of some help...

Thanks!

cut lighting back to 75% max, I think 100% is too much of led's they are a very harsh light source, normally its probably ok but when water is not nutrient laden the par shoots way up, too much of a good thing isn't always a good thing

 

[tnwillia]

I can't help much other than to say my LPS/Zoa/Mushroom dominated tank seemed to do MUCH MUCH better in a "less than spotless" tank. I can't talk to SPS, maybe PM Reggie if he does not jump in here. Maybe they are unhappy with the PH change and will come back as they see it stabilize again. Good luck!

 

[DanSReef]

cut lighting back to 75% max, I think 100% is too much of led's they are a very harsh light source, normally its probably ok but when water is not nutrient laden the par shoots way up, too much of a good thing isn't always a good thing

Thanks ... I am thinking that I am going to reduce the intensity. At this point... if I stay on this track I am going to loose stuff... Everything is pointing back to the LEDs. The other thing I need to do is get a par meter to see what these things are really producing.

 

[dmatt88]

Devin. Mark. Apollo input? U got my pm on lights n I'm still bleaching. I take my corals out of 25" depth n put em in t5 (6of them) in a 12" tank n color comes back. These things r obviously too hot. I'm at 60% Max. Have u done a major wc to rule out water quality? Sas is right I'm learning. Too much of a good thing may b bad( ie par)

........the mayor votes funlad for president!

 

[Bearjohnson]

I can't comment on intensity. My tank is 30" deep and believe it or not ive been at 100% since day 1 with my apollos. But don't forget I had my AI SOLS on before the Apollos. However, if you put me in the same situation I'm dropping the lights to 45% for two weeks and see how things react. Believe me even at 45% you are still fine.

 

[PSU4ME]

I too think the lighting is your issue however I'm not sure why it would grow like crazy then start to die off. My other thought from reading your OP would be alk swings.

 

[DanSReef]

I can't comment on intensity. My tank is 30" deep and believe it or not ive been at 100% since day 1 with my apollos. But don't forget I had my AI SOLS on before the Apollos. However, if you put me in the same situation I'm dropping the lights to 45% for two weeks and see how things react. Believe me even at 45% you are still fine.

Bear - Have you measured your par values in your tank? BTW... My tank is 30" deep as well. I spent a good hour and a half with Joe from Apollo on the phone last night...and his suggestion is to measure some par values in the tank. Sas suggested I may have too much par in part due to ULN system... and then the LEDs. Also, just curious what your lighting schedule might be. If you can share I would appreciate it.

In the meantime, I am going to reduce my intensity and see if I see a reversal of the downward progression on a few of my pieces. Thanks for the help!

 

[DanSReef]

I too think the lighting is your issue however I'm not sure why it would grow like crazy then start to die off. My other thought from reading your OP would be alk swings.

My alk measurements are pretty consistent. 8-9. I put +/- 1..... The range has not varried.... and the other consideration is that I have a new test kit as well. Yes... I use API test kits. I test almost weekly this tank and the measurement I get is pretty much always 8 with only one exception back in early January where it dropped to 7.

 

[Bearjohnson]

My lights are on any where from 7 to 8 hours a day depending on my schedule. Also how high off of your water line do you have them. I have no canopy so mine are hung from the ceiling at the moment and they are a good 9" to 10" above the water line. If yours are real close. To the water line I would consider raising them also. I've never measured any par on my tank so I couldnt say what that might be.

Just thinking out loud but all of your water parameters see to be all good. Excluding any weird water quality issues (RODI?) I'd stay focused on the Apollos, they are pretty intense perhaps a bit too much for some but I think if you dim them down and possibly raise them up a bit, you have a pretty good foundation of starting point for the cure. Good luck!

 

[PSU4ME]

Devon posted a video about the Apollos.....showing 591 par at the sand hung 25 inches but it didn't mention the type of optics used (if any). That was at 100% and is a ton of par on the sand bed........which leads me to believe there is a lot more in the top of the tank.

Does your local reef club have a meter you could borrow?

 

[Alf]

With water parms at what you say they are I would have to suspect the lighting as well. The only way to even suspect it tho is to borrow a par meter and test. JMO

 

[DanSReef]

Devon posted a video about the Apollos.....showing 591 par at the sand hung 25 inches but it didn't mention the type of optics used (if any). That was at 100% and is a ton of par on the sand bed........which leads me to believe there is a lot more in the top of the tank.

Does your local reef club have a meter you could borrow?

Wow! 591 at the sand! I am looking to see if I can get a par meter....from someone local. That is insane.... of course... I also have a 30" deept tank... too... but still the upper 1/3 and mid tank are would be cooking... I have already reduced the intensity... for the meantime... I have to think that I have just too much intensity....

 

[sasquatch]

PAR is only a small part of LED issues, I believe the real culprit is PUR

 

[DanSReef]

PAR is only a small part of LED issues, I believe the real culprit is PUR

OK... I am stumped... Can you explain... and forgive me if I should know this.....

 

[PSU4ME]

Agree with Sas....LED's pack a big punch from a few different levels. I'd tone them back to 30% and start from there.

 

[PSU4ME]

PAR is available radiation......PUR is usable radiation. The usable part is a function of what the light gives off and how the "recepient" receives or uses it so it varies by corals, plants etc.

 

[Bearjohnson]

PAR is available raditaion......PUR is usable raditaion. The usable part is a function of what the light gives off and how the "recepient" receives or uses it so it varies by corals, plants etc.

Well said sir!

 

[sasquatch]

OK... I am stumped... Can you explain... and forgive me if I should know this.....

stumped is good its all about the learning lol,the above posts should have answered that. LED's are pretty new overall and they have done nothing but change from the start, the focus,the lens's, the led's themselves, in the old school of MH you needed more light you just jumped up to the next wattage level gaining more par/pur with relative safety. I suspect shortly a whole new LED generation will come out with either a balanced or adjustable pur setting then of coarse the plasma bulbs will have everybody going crazy again haha

 

[dmatt88]

Plasma lighting. Sweet.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2