fuge changed to sump

kyle4201

Active Member
A #1 potential problem,, are you putting the water from the LFS that the fish and corals come in into your tank?? Some people use the floating technique to accumulate fish and put the water into the MT. if you have done this even once,, the chance of copper in your tank is very high,, even if your test dosent show it it could be minute, just enough to kill corals. Also, on the same point,, if you got your tank used,, the previous owners could have used copper and its leached into the silicone seals and thats also a problem
 
Kyle, the tank was brand new, never had any copper in it, the live rock never had copper and none of the fish were treated with copper. Besides that, I've had carbon and chemipure running in it for a couple years. It tested absolutely negative for copper.

I went and got my water tested today and as I expected after cleaning out the refugium and stirring stuff up, my nitrates are a bit high at 40, but I need to do another water change. My labs read as follows-
pH- 8.2
KH- 11
Specific density is hight at 1.032 which I also expected. I usually have it at 1.028 or so
Ammonia -0
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate- 40
Ca- 440

Tomorrow when I get home from work I'll do a water change. I also bought a new test kit that doesn't expire until 2018! And got another opinion on bio-balls from the guy at the other LFS- no good. Go with Live rock. I swear I might just tear this whole tank down!!
 
Dave, if I take out the refugium/sump completely out of my system and just have the DT, what protein skimmer should I use if the Remora isn't big enough? How many people just have a DT with nothing else?
 

roearth

Member
My second tank has no sump. Skimmer is on the left and filter box containing the heater on the right.its a great tank however I have equipment taking up valuable space and a skimmer the spits out micro bubbles which I hate. I personally prefer a sump for the clean look. This tank is still new a 3 months old
87643325-5B28-447F-A8EC-FEF538BF9AF7_zps0bdywrjz.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
So I did a water change on Sunday and Monday I will recheck the salinity and nitrate levels in my tank. Hopefully they will be a bit better.
 
Anyone have any words of wisdom now that you have seen the set up? Should I scrap everything and give up? Set things up differently?? What do you think??
 

landshark

Member
so far nothing jump out, but you definitely have had a string of bad brakes. What do you have as live stock in the tank currently? I might have miss it but what type of sand are you using? do you have any brass or metal fitting in your pluming? also what kind of return pump are you using i couldn't tell from the pictures.
 
I have 2 firefish, 2 clowns, 2 PJs, a orange diamond goby, a six line, a foxface, 2 cleaner shrimp, 1 peppermint shrimp, 2 sad looking serpent starfish, and snails and crabs, but a lot less than I used to have. The sand was the live sand that comes in the bag as well as the sand from my tank before. There are no metal parts in the tank except for the metal drive shafts in the pumps. I have a mag 5 pump returning the water back to the tank from the fuge.
Any design changes I should make? reposition my powerheads?
Thanks!
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
...

I went and got my water tested today and as I expected after cleaning out the refugium and stirring stuff up, my nitrates are a bit high at 40, but I need to do another water change. My labs read as follows-
pH- 8.2
KH- 11
Specific density is hight at 1.032 which I also expected. I usually have it at 1.028 or so
Ammonia -0
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate- 40
Ca- 440

...

Dave, if I take out the refugium/sump completely out of my system and just have the DT, what protein skimmer should I use if the Remora isn't big enough? How many people just have a DT with nothing else?

...
Any design changes I should make? reposition my powerheads?


Thanks!

As you noted there are some basic water parameter issues, and your working on them. I highlighted the SG and Nitrate since they are the problems. You may want to consider an ATO unit to keep the SG at a more consistent level. This is critical for keeping corals.

The water changes you plan should go a long way toward fixing the nitrate issue. You want to do large partial water changes, about 1/3 the total volume of water in the tank. Since it's a large amount, be especially careful about matching temp and SG. You'll need to make about 4 water changes like this to get nitrate really down.

As far as tearing the tank down, I don't think that's necessary, and will cause more problems than it will solve. Yes, there are times when that's got to be done, but do it only when there is no other way.

In looking at the sump pictures, the bio-balls have got to go. Using them submerged like that turns them into a massive dirt trap, nitrate factory and oxygen consumer. They are no doubt part of the problem. Take them out at a rate of about 20% a week. Also clean out the inside of the sump, getting as much of that gunk and algae out as possible. Don't add live rock rubble or anything similar in place of the bio-balls. You might want to add some bags of chemical media like carbon. It will not hurt. You may also want to add a filter sock for mechanical filtration.

Yes, it is possible to run a system without a sump at all, and just use a skimmer. I don't usually recommend doing that, since it really cuts down on your filtration options.

You can move the powerheads around. I think it actually a good idea to do that from time to time. Gets the circulation in different places.
 
So, I actually ran into the guy who put more live rock and stuff in the other day and asked him my questions. This guy has worked with the guys from "Tanked" many times and sets up and takes care of thousands of tanks in the area. He said I should take out the bio-balls, put in the chemi-pure elite and a polyfilter pad and just let my tank balance out itself. "Just leave it alone" he said. Any opinions?
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
I'm not a big fan of Chemi-pure elite. It's mostly carbon and GFO. While it does work, it's expensive and the carbon and for best results GFO should not be mixed together. Ideally, you should run GFO in a reactor such as a phosban reactor, This it to prevent the media from clumping. As a note phosban is GFO. I much prefer to run the two media separately.

On GFO itself. I found it best to get this from a place like bulk reef supply. You'll notice that they sell several grades of the product. This is a case where you want the higer grades, because it's less bulk to ship and you'll use less product.

On carbon. Carbon is a bit controversial as a media. Some use it all the time, some use it once and awhile, others not at all. There is no right or wrong way here. This is also a media that works best in it's own reactor, but putting a bag of it in the tank will work ok.

On Polly filter pads. There are several other similar media out there. Purigen is one. In my opinion they all work. The nice thing about polly filter pads is that all you got to do is drop them in the tank. Another advantage is that they will turn different colors depending on what they are removing. They are good at removing heavy metals. The downside is that they are fairly expensive. This is something that may do you a lot of good, and sure isn't going to hurt anything.

As for "just let my tank balance out itself. Just leave it alone", this would be good advice if you were not having a problem. Often the best thing you can do on a reef system is leave it alone. When you have a problem though, you need to work on it, go carefully, and so on. If you don't work on the problem, it's very simple, your not going to solve it. Personally, I think you got quoted one of the guys "stock lines" which is not applicable in your case.

Lastly, don't put too much credibility in anything related to the show Tanked. Most of these systems are done so that the aquarium maintenance company can keep them going. As such they need to set up simple tanks, with limited livestock. In SW systems they do, the systems tend to be FO or FOWLR and those are not nearly demanding as a reef. I'd love to see a follow up show and see how all these systems looked 6 months and 1 year later.
 
So after debating on it, I've decided to go back to having a refugium. Now my questions are I have 3 chambers, what should I put in the first, second and third? Before I had rubble rock in the first (where the water comes in), then sand and attempted plant life in the 2nd, while the 3rd had the chemi pure elite. I would also put a poly-filter pad in the space between the dividers. Should I go back to this or try something else??
Should I somehow rig up a filter sock to the 1st chamber or put a sponge filter on the pipe inside my overflow box?
Thanks!
 

Creekview

Member
I had mine set up with an algae scrubber in the first chamber, rubble in the second, and sand in the third. Second and third chambers became a 'pod farm. Worked quite well, though I changed my system recently due to space constraints.
 
I have a HOG algae scrubber up in the main tank so I'm good there. Should I do rubble rock again, or a filter sock? Both? Try another deep sand bed in the middle chamber with lots of macro algae? I have an external pump so the last chamber tends to suck stuff up pretty easily, so I don't want to put the sand there.
 

david42

Active Member
I have a similar setup. 75 gallon with a wet dry filter(wish it was a real sump). I started out with Bio balls in the first chamber. Took about a month before I began to hate them. You could see the garbage piling up. I removed them over time. The noise of water trickling through the empty chamber led me to use some rock rubble there.
Wasn't long before the rubble caused the same problem.
I just bought a filter sock holder from Bulk Reef supply called the Sock-it. It hangs on in the first chamber and has an extendable tube to cut down on water noise.
I am in the process of hooking it up right now. There was so much garbage in wet dry filter I pulled everything out to clean it.
I would say after removing bio balls, do not add any rubble. Get a filter sock. Save yourself the trouble of cleaning the sump twice.
 
I'm just trying to figure out how best to get a filter sock into my system. The in flow pipe comes in at a 90 degree angle and then turns down at another 90 degree angle into the first chamber so the pipe is basically right in the middle of the chamber and goes almost all the way to the bottom. A lot of the filter set ups have a hole with the pipe coming in that goes right into a sock. Any suggestions?
 

david42

Active Member
My sock holder has a bracket that goes on edge of wet dry filter. My wet dry filter has a center brace. Maybe you could put it there if you have one? Maybe do a little rerouting of your plumbing?
On my inlet, I just used a flex hose going from the baffle to the pipe on filter sock holder.
 
Top