Elegance Coral theory

[sasquatch]

Welcome back Darrell,so in your "opinion" what is the best coarse of acclimation,introduction and daily care, for anyone who may be bold enough to try an elegance.Steve

 

[mps9506]

The tissue is more sensitive due to the damage caused by the breakdown of the symbiotic relationship between the coral and the algae. This is brought on by bright lights or elevated temps. There has been a great deal more research into corals bleaching after the El nino events that caused wide spread bleaching on coral reefs.

I am pretty familiar with some of the work done on acros and brains in the Caribbean because I was lucky enough to work with a professor at my college after she had done much research on this. Most of her work concentrated on elevated temps, as well as increased sedimentation in the Caribbean.
That being said, short term increased temps definitely will cause a bleaching event, I am not sure about short term light exposure though? Again I have no idea what type of light increase these guys are being exposed to since I still haven't seen much info on where these are being collected from. It just seems weird to me that other corals collected in the same vicinity wouldn't suffer from the same problem? I assume fungia's, lobo's etc are collected from the same area, if you could clarify this let me know because I am not familiar with the collection areas.
I definitely agree that over exposure to light light during warehousing/retail and hobbyist's tanks would cause bleaching and susceptibility to pathogens and infections. If this is happening before it reaches a hobbyist's tanks then why are we not seeing the same for other corals collected from the same areas?

Again don't take this as an attack on your research/observations, I just want to bring up questions to make everyone think about this as much as possible.

 

[elegance coral]

From what I have read these corals are being collected from the sand/silt beds at the base of coral reefs at depths reaching 60ft. I have not studied other coals enough to know what species may share this environment. I am not qualified to speculate as to the reactions of other corals that may share this environment, but you asked so I will. I believe that the problems with Elegance corals stem from the clad of algae living in its tissues. These algae don't seem to be very well adapted to increases in light and temp. I would assume that it is possible for a different species of coral to survive in this environment while hosting a different clad of algae. This may explain why we don't see reports of this in other corals. However this is pure speculation on my part.

 

[elegance coral]

Welcome back Darrell,so in your "opinion" what is the best coarse of acclimation,introduction and daily care, for anyone who may be bold enough to try an elegance.Steve

Thanks for the welcome!!

My opinion would be to start out with light that is less intense than what you would expect the coral to need. Keeping in mind that most of the corals coming into the hobby are deep water corals. Slowly increase the lighting and watch for swelling of the polyp. If the polyp begins to swell up shortly after the lights come on they are to strong and will have to be replaced or moved further away. If the coral begins to swell up 6 or 7 hours after the brightest lights come on the photo period can be reduced. As even the supporters of the pathogen theory admit, antibiotics and other medications will do nothing to help this situation. (it is because there is no pathogen to kill at this stage) Once you have the lights adjusted where the coral does not swell up, there is little to do other than regular maintenance and feedings. In most cases the expansion of the coral will decrease over the first week or two depending on the amount of damage it received before you got it. In my experience most of them will survive this without coming down with an infection, provided they are not exposed to very bright lights or high temps while in your care. If an infection does set in the normal fragging and iodine dips are all you can do. If there is still any viable tissue left on the coral it can survive.

 

[cheeks69]

Based on my research this isn't whats taking place. The original corals in the tank are showing signs of stress brought on most likely by the lights being to intense. The newly introduced coral is simply reacting to the same stress as the other corals and has nothing to do with the fact that other corals are in the tank

How bout Elegances that have been kept for years and are very healthy and then placing a "sick" Elegance and all of them showing the same symptoms and eventually they all die ?

These corals are suffering the same effects of a coral that has bleached. The only difference is that they are not expelling their algae. I don't know why they retain their algae in these situations. This is an area for a much more qualified person to study. When these corals are exposed to light greater than that witch they came from, or excess temps, they begin to swell up and withdraw their tentacles.

I am not aware of any other coral that shows these same symptoms when in serious stress, in every case based IME from Softies, LPS to deep water Acros and even Anemones they all bleach. Have you tested this on your Elegance corals ? Could you give us some detailed info on any experiments you have made that clearly show that an increase in temp or exposure to an increase in light levels causes these reaction on the Elegance corals ?

This could be considered anecdotal, if it could not be reproduced over and over again in any tank with any of the deep water corals. Because of the fact that any of these deeper water corals will react in the same way under the same conditions time after time the evidence is anything but anecdotal. One only needs to test this for themselves.

It has been reproduced by whom ? How do you know that all these Elegance corals are coming from deeper water ? Is there any scientific studies that you know of that you would like to share ?

 

[elegance coral]

How bout Elegances that have been kept for years and are very healthy and then placing a "sick" Elegance and all of them showing the same symptoms and eventually they all die ?

The only time this takes place is when corals that have an infection are placed in with healthy ones. The over inflated oral disk and shrunken tentacles is not contagious.

 

[elegance coral]

I am not aware of any other coral that shows these same symptoms when in serious stress, in every case based IME from Softies, LPS to deep water Acros and even Anemones they all bleach. Have you tested this on your Elegance corals ? Could you give us some detailed info on any experiments you have made that clearly show that an increase in temp or exposure to an increase in light levels causes these reaction on the Elegance corals ?


This is part of the mystery that has caused so many problems for people trying to keep these corals alive. The over inflated oral disk and shrunken tentacles does not show up in other coral the way it does in Elegance corals. When we started to see this no one knew what was causing it, how to prevent it, or how to treat it. When the theory of killer protozoans came out the scientific community was set on a path they haven't wavered from. This is like an investigator thinking you did the crime and ignoring any other evidence that may point to someone else.
I have spent a year and a half placing these corals in many different environments in an attempt to find out how to keep them alive. In every case where I placed one of these new corals under bright lights they began to swell up. When removed from this light the swelling quickly began to subside. All I have to prove this as of right now is my word. This is why I am working on a video that will show this reaction for everyone to see for themselves. I found out about heat causing this same problem quite by accident. I live in Florida and it gets hot here in the summer. I came home from work to find one of my corals swollen and its tentacles withdrawn. At first I didn't know what was going on so I did what I always do when there is an unknown problem in the tank. I started changing water. My RO is outside so the water was worm. I was in a hurry and I didn't think a few gallons of worm water would change the overall temp that much. When I was through changing water I looked at the tank and most of my corals were now doing the same thing. At first I was lost, until I looked at the temp. It was 88. At this point I started bagging up items from the freezer and placing them in the sump. These symptoms are being caused by the same stress that causes bleaching, with the same damaged tissue after the fact. This event pushed several of my more severely damaged corals over the edge and I was left with 5 in different stages of recovery. When my LFS gets in a seemingly healthy Elegance I will make the video and post it here. I will most likely be killing the coral to prove my point, but hopefully it will change the way people view this problem.

 

[elegance coral]

It has been reproduced by whom ? How do you know that all these Elegance corals are coming from deeper water ? Is there any scientific studies that you know of that you would like to share ?

I think everyone that has done the slightest bit of reading on this subject is in agreement that these corals are coming from deeper waters. They are all but extinct throughout much of their shallow water collection sights. Even the people that support the protozoan theory agree that the corals are coming from deeper waters today. All one needs to do is Google "Elegance corals" and you will find plenty of reading on the subject.

 

[prow]

:tumble:






i saw the smilie above and thought about this thread

 

[BEELZEBOB]

i saw some post in the lps forum on rc of how this kid that worx at an LFS got in a shipment of these.

a few were awsome, but one, one had the classic traits of elegance doom.


i guess upon further inspection the kid founs DOZENS of the lil tick looking inverst BURRIED in the corals flesh...'


could be one reason