Does PAINTING the back glass affect anything?
- Thread starter BigAl07
- Start date
Just make sure it's WATER PROOFI may be able to get my hands on a handheld PAR meter some time next week...
BarbMazz
Well-Known Member
I sat in on this talk, too (Al was sleeping! j/k Really he wasn't lol) and I was pleased to see how well T5 lighting seemed to do. T5 seemed to have the most EVEN coverage to the most depth. I felt as though I can keep just about any type of coral/clam/anemone in my kind of deep tank. He had a list of what sort of light different corals needed and I was pretty good in the hood with my T5 lights!
I was also glad I hadn't painted the back of the tank. I have very loosely taped cheapo black plastic stuff that hardly even touches the glass so I'm all good in that department. My reason was the same as yours, Linda! Cover up all the ugly stuff back there!
Now, the one thing that glared out at me about this talk was that he did all these measurements with FRESH water not SALT water. I did and do wonder how salinity affects light in the water. It seems to me that it must. I'm sure if we ALL chipped in and sent him some salt and some moola ( lol ) he would take the time to re-do all the measurements!
One thing, too. I sure wish I lived closer to those of you I was lucky enough to meet at Macna. That was the best!
I hear ya! That was a BLAST! We all thoroughly had a LARGE time and hope to do it again! Yall were both a blast to hang out with
BarbMazz
Well-Known Member
He made of point of saying he used fresh water because of time and expense. Salt affects so many different things in reefs... of course it HAS to affect light quality too if for no other reason than the crystals.
rmlevasseur
Active Member
I'm am more interested in the coraline question. I assume a coralline covered back wall would have the same effect.
Still, I have no reason to believe that my corals under my Solaris need even more light, so I'm not too worried about this. Maybe if I was running PC though this would be a great "upgrade"
Still, I have no reason to believe that my corals under my Solaris need even more light, so I'm not too worried about this. Maybe if I was running PC though this would be a great "upgrade"
BigJay
Well-Known Member
One big point that he brings up and must be considered before drastic action of removing the paint on your back wall. If you have rock agains the back glass having your glass unpainted will dimish the effect. I'd have to think even if you had half of the back of the tank stacked with corals and rocks most of the positive effects from the test would be gone.
Smiley1 that's a very valid point but remember not everyone "adheres" to the idea of Coraline Algae being beneficial and many of us work hard to scrape it off all the glass. Usually the newer you are to the hobby the more you "Desire" coraline algae in your tanks. After you start getting it you realize you've messed up by wishing and pushing for it
I can sort of see the argument of "Since many of us cover up the back glass with rock and stuff anyway WHY worry about what light is absorbed by the back glass". Well take my tank for example. No rock (except for the one that's magnetic) touch or really "shadow" the back glass. All of my rock work is free-standing and I have ample flow and room between rock & glass. Also I have a fairly strong CUC that keep the back glass relatively clean and algae free. So I'd like to get as much of the light that hits the back glass back INTO the tank as I can. Heck I'm paying for it might as well get something from it no?
I can sort of see the argument of "Since many of us cover up the back glass with rock and stuff anyway WHY worry about what light is absorbed by the back glass". Well take my tank for example. No rock (except for the one that's magnetic) touch or really "shadow" the back glass. All of my rock work is free-standing and I have ample flow and room between rock & glass. Also I have a fairly strong CUC that keep the back glass relatively clean and algae free. So I'd like to get as much of the light that hits the back glass back INTO the tank as I can. Heck I'm paying for it might as well get something from it no?
Smiley1
Member
oh i totally agree with you. i guess i was directing the question in line with the way i have my tank set up... i have the rock up against the back wall in the center of my tank where light cant get to the glass. so any algae that grows there cant be gotten to with my scraper. so i guess i would be getting the benefit of surface area for filtration. as for the rest of my glass, the light can reflect off of it. so to me t sounds like that i should keep this part clean to help reflect some of the light back into my tank. if i do so, i can see all the electrical crap back there from the front. not very appealing if ya know what i mean. I have a black background on it now, but am curios if i should remove it, space it away from the back glass, or replace it with aluminum foil or a mirror which as well can be spaced away...
glass isnt totally reflective as we can see the light going through it, so if a reflective surface is suspended behind it, like maybe 1/8" away from the glass, would the additional reflective surface help return some of the lost light?
sorry if this is confusing. my 18 month old thinks shes a blue leg hermit right now and my ADHD is kicking in lol.
glass isnt totally reflective as we can see the light going through it, so if a reflective surface is suspended behind it, like maybe 1/8" away from the glass, would the additional reflective surface help return some of the lost light?
sorry if this is confusing. my 18 month old thinks shes a blue leg hermit right now and my ADHD is kicking in lol.
The glass does become "Totally Reflective" from angles when the right conditions exist (Water on inside and nothing touching/adhered to outside). I don't claim to understand this but it's true regardless of my understanding.
Like you I don't want to see the "Stuff" behind the tank so on my next set-up I'll be creating a back-drop but one that isn't touching the glass directly. Maybe just a FAUX back that's suspended 1/2 inch from the glass. This would make it EASY to change/replace over time.
Like you I don't want to see the "Stuff" behind the tank so on my next set-up I'll be creating a back-drop but one that isn't touching the glass directly. Maybe just a FAUX back that's suspended 1/2 inch from the glass. This would make it EASY to change/replace over time.
lcstorc
Well-Known Member
If I am ever sitting around the house bored one day, I am going to take my par meter and my 10g tank and get make some more fun charts. I wish I had a bigger tank to play with but that is what is sitting around right now. This was actually something they just noticed while doing a different lighting study and they didn't have the time to examine all of the variables. When James discussed it at MACNA he mentioned about a million unanswered questions that these results brought up.
:bluenod:
I think most every conclusion brought up a whole new set of questions and he admitted this wasn't his "field of study". He was just trying to compare CF to MH to LED lights.
Lynn I'd love to see what kind of results yall can come up with
naperenterprise
Active Member
So by having my tanks in a wall with both sides open for viewing, thats a good thing then right?
Also this got me thinking about those tanks that overflow the water over all four sides of the tank. I wonder if thats good or bad?
Also this got me thinking about those tanks that overflow the water over all four sides of the tank. I wonder if thats good or bad?
Ok... so Heres my tidbit of info. Hopefully it will help some of 'YALL' understand whats going on if you dont get this principle. I do however think his tests were a little incomplete because he shows no non-painted results. By non-painted i mean the entire aquarium.
Reflections:
Reflections occur when light moves between two mediums with differnt refraction indexes. When you look into a pool of water straight on and you see your reflection you are seeing around 2% of the light that entered the body of water. If its dark below the surface of the water and bright above you will see a more defined reflection of yourself or surroundings. Its still only a 2% reflection. This works in the same way a one way mirror works.
The little mirror on the glass you see when you look insde of your tank is due to the natural phenomenon called Total Internal Reflection. At a certain angle (which changes with the refraction index i believe) called the incident angle all light is reflected. Another requirement for this to occur is for the light to be moving from a more dense medium to a less dense one (ie from water to air). This also occurs at the surface of water for which the incident angle is around 48 degrees.
If you were to look up while swimming in our awesome aquariums your view would be distorted. You would see a compressed view of the outside world, kind of like the effect of a fisheye lense. This would fill 48 degrees of your field of view and for the rest you would see a reflection.
REFLECTANCE equation = (N1 — N2)^2 / (N1 + N2)^2
N1 AND N2 are gathered from the refraction index below.
Refraction Index List
Test Results:
Heres a more accurate picture of whats going on with light as it passes through glass. The picture they used was a little confusing and misleading. The light reflects off of ALL surfaces of the glass including inside itself.
the right side diagram shows what happens when light passes through the clean glass. the longer the arrows the more/stronger light thats emitted.
On the left is a diagram of a painted tank. Say we used black to paint the tank... Because it is BLACK most if not all the colors of the light spectrum are ABSORBED "into the black" for lack of better words and turned into heat.. Therefore less light is reflected back inward.
There are three differnt places for this passing light to go. It can be reflected, absorbed, or transmitted by the glass. All happen at once and all are mathematically sound. Includes lots of fun Trig functions...
The vertical and horizontal arrows show where absorbed light is being emitted.
Ever noticed when you look at the Edge of one of the panes of glass on your aquarium its brightly lit? That is light being absorbed or trapped withen the glass by Total Internal Reflection. This is the same principle Fiber Optic cables use. Depending on the size of the pane of glass, if you were to watch the edge and then place your hand on the face of the glass you will see the edge dim because you are effectivly absorbing light that would normally be reflected off the medium change from glass to air.
I hope ive explained this stuff a little better. ive completely lost my train of thought if you have questions just ask and ill answer the best i can
understand whats going on if you dont get this principle. I do however think his tests were a little incomplete because he shows no non-painted results. By non-painted i mean the entire aquarium. Reflections:
Reflections occur when light moves between two mediums with differnt refraction indexes. When you look into a pool of water straight on and you see your reflection you are seeing around 2% of the light that entered the body of water. If its dark below the surface of the water and bright above you will see a more defined reflection of yourself or surroundings. Its still only a 2% reflection. This works in the same way a one way mirror works.
The little mirror on the glass you see when you look insde of your tank is due to the natural phenomenon called Total Internal Reflection. At a certain angle (which changes with the refraction index i believe) called the incident angle all light is reflected. Another requirement for this to occur is for the light to be moving from a more dense medium to a less dense one (ie from water to air). This also occurs at the surface of water for which the incident angle is around 48 degrees.
If you were to look up while swimming in our awesome aquariums your view would be distorted. You would see a compressed view of the outside world, kind of like the effect of a fisheye lense. This would fill 48 degrees of your field of view and for the rest you would see a reflection.
REFLECTANCE equation = (N1 — N2)^2 / (N1 + N2)^2
N1 AND N2 are gathered from the refraction index below.
Refraction Index List
Test Results:
Heres a more accurate picture of whats going on with light as it passes through glass. The picture they used was a little confusing and misleading. The light reflects off of ALL surfaces of the glass including inside itself.
the right side diagram shows what happens when light passes through the clean glass. the longer the arrows the more/stronger light thats emitted.
On the left is a diagram of a painted tank. Say we used black to paint the tank... Because it is BLACK most if not all the colors of the light spectrum are ABSORBED "into the black" for lack of better words and turned into heat.. Therefore less light is reflected back inward.
There are three differnt places for this passing light to go. It can be reflected, absorbed, or transmitted by the glass. All happen at once and all are mathematically sound. Includes lots of fun Trig functions...
The vertical and horizontal arrows show where absorbed light is being emitted.
Ever noticed when you look at the Edge of one of the panes of glass on your aquarium its brightly lit? That is light being absorbed or trapped withen the glass by Total Internal Reflection. This is the same principle Fiber Optic cables use. Depending on the size of the pane of glass, if you were to watch the edge and then place your hand on the face of the glass you will see the edge dim because you are effectivly absorbing light that would normally be reflected off the medium change from glass to air.
I hope ive explained this stuff a little better. ive completely lost my train of thought
if you have questions just ask and ill answer the best i can