Discus Tank Question - Filter

Rep. Day

Member
I have had tanks for a number of years (just started with SW recently). I am looking at setting up a 55 gallon for a few discus fish, I have always wanted to keep some.

I know they need excellent water quality, I was wondering if there are any recommendations for filters, and what media you would use in a filter. I am sure I will go with a canister, but would appreciate any recommendations others might have for a good one.

Thanks for any advice you can shoot my way.

Dave
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
If possible, I'd go with a larger tank, something like a 70 which has the same frontal area as a 555, but is 18 inches wide. Adult discus should have some "turning room".

Generally an adult discus needs at least 10 gal of water, and more is better. You also allocate about 10 gal to the system. So for a 55 gal tank, you want to plan on about 4 adults, which fits into what you seem to want.

Since your going to be spending a lot of money on discus, there is no point on skimping on the filtration system. Canisters are usually preferred. Generally Eheim canisters are considered the best all around, but they are expensive. I'd go with a PRO II or PRO III or Classic. This doesn't mean that the other canisters are bad. Most other name brands are just fine, and less expensive.

You might want to consider a planted tank for you discus. Check out some of the planted tank forums, and see if that is for you.
 

Rep. Day

Member
Thanks Dave, I was planning on doing a planted tank, that has been recommended by a number of folks.

I have been looking at the Eheims, from what I can tell they look very good.

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it!

Dave
 

bbe22

Member
I agree with Davek here, as usual. I keep four discus in a 55 gallon planted tank. For filtration I use a large wet/dry trickle filter designed for a much larger tank. The sump holds about 25 gallons. The wet/dry provides a lot of oxygen exchange for the fish, but I strongly believe that the plants and cuc handle most of the filtration. This tank has been established for years, but when I decided to start keeping discus again, I went to Peter Thodes hatchery. I explained my concern over filtration. He said I was way too worried, and if the tank is heavily planted it really helps in not only making the tank healthy but the fish comfortable as well. I had originally planned on doing frequent water changes. He recommended doing a lot less frequent changes. My tank has been running with the current livestock for about two years now, and I've had nothing but great success.

My stock in this tank includes four discus ranging from 3"- 7", two angelfish, (a proved mating pair that I couldn't give up, I don't recommend keeping angels with discus), six corydoras catfish, two otocinclus, and an ever changing number of neon tetras. Additionally I have two varieties of snails that I can't even count, probably in the 100-150 range.

I used to run co2 on this tank. I stopped awhile back after finding it really didn't benefit it that much and was costly to run. I only fertilize the tank when I do water changes, about once every 6 weeks, sometimes longer. I use Sea-Chem brand Flourish in moderation. I've found that my love of organic food has also inspired me to try to be as organic with my tanks as possible as well. The way I maintain this tank is very simple. I've never vacuumed it. The detritus has formed an organic mud that feeds the plants. They do very well. I have twenty odd varieties. The snails take care of the excess waste and algae. Discuss graze like cows, and will pretty much eat all you can feed them, over time, and the corys take care of the rest. I like to feed them live black worms and blood worms, but they love flake food as well. I prefer Omega One personally. They also get the occasional fresh mysis shrimp. When I have the time I'll make them food as well, which I puree and freeze, but has too many ingredients to list.

You can see pictures of my fish on the link in my thread, but I will also refer you here: Discus Fish Breeder: Gwynnbrook Farm Discus Fish Hatchery for discus. Peter Thode is who I bought mine from. He is an international judge in discus competitions and a well respected breeder. His fish are top notch and quite affordable compared to lesser quality breeders. He also includes a recipe for making food for discus on that web-site.

I know this reply addresses more than you asked, but from one discus keeper to another, I just wanted to offer my insight. Another member here who has had a lot of success with discus is Grendelprime.

Good luck, and let me know if you have any questions.

Brian
 

Rep. Day

Member
I don't think there is such a thing as too much information, thanks for that. I knew I was going to put a dozen or so neons in with them but wondered what would be good to help cleaning up some, I will probably do the cory's that you mentioned.

My plan is to get the tank setup, put the plants in, and let it run for a while like that, allowing the plants to start growing some and the water to adjust, etc... Then start adding the fish.

I was wondering about the water changes and while I read everything from 20% each week to 20% every 3 months, what you posted bbe22 is closer to being in line with what he has told me, but as you did, he stressed that for a well planted tank.

Another question if I may, is there any need for a UV? I have never used one on any tank I have had but am wondering it if would benifit me some.

Lastly, this will be my first FW tank with live plants, what filter media would you recommend? I think the canister I am getting for it has 4 baskets and of course don't want to put anything in that might set plants back some, that might not be a worry, but I don't know if that is the case or not.

Thanks again everyone!

Dave
 

bbe22

Member
A lot of people will tell you do a lot of frequent waterchanges. I top off this tank every other day and do 15-20% changes every 6-8 weeks. Never had a problem.

I've never used an UV filter, so I can't really say if you would need one.

A lot of people like using a substrate called Flourite, which is designed for planted tanks. It is pretty expensive though, especially for larger tanks. I went the cheap route and bought small gravel in bulk at a hardware store. Like I mentioned, I've never vacuumed this tank, so the "mud" filled in all the gaps. My plants love it, and I think it cost me maybe 10 or 20 bucks years ago when I set this tank up. Oh, I misread that last question, but there's my two cents on substrate. :)

I've never used a canister filter. I've always used wet/dry's, so I just have the mechanical prefilters, which I got from a restaurant, they are the green scrubbers meant for washing plates and teflon pots. Easy to cut into shape, and best of all, free. (I asked first, but we keep them by the case and they are dirt cheap). Next, for my bio-load, I just have stock bio-balls. I'm not sure what kind of canister you plan on getting, but I'd definitely get the biggest one you can. As far as media, I'm not sure what I'd use, other than a variety. I know that doesn't really help. I just prefer the wet/dry's because the one I have is designed for a tank at least four times the size of the one it is on, so I have a huge bio-load and a lot of gas exchange, which certainly think helps with the fewer water change-thing.

In my opinion, a must have for any discus tank is a large sock of peat moss. I used the entire leg of a panty hose stuffed full and threw it in the sump. Be sure to rinse it really well first and make sure you get the cheap chemical and fertilizer free variety. It will turn your tank to a tea color for about a month, but it fades. I change it out maybe every six months. This will give you a rock solid buffer for the water, as discus love very soft acidic water. I also keep the temp high in this tank, about 86 degrees.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
This is a case where you will need to decide if you want a discus tank with plants or a planted tank with discus. In other words, what is going to be the main theme of the tank the plants or the discus.

If it's going to be plants, you'll most likely want a canister filter, since it will not dissipate CO2 the way a wet/dry filter will. You'll also likely want a CO2 system, since that will really enhance plant growth, and allow you to keep many harder plants with comparative ease. Planted tanks often make use of fertilizer to encourage plant growth. The fish droppings alone usually will not be enough. You will also often see very specialized substrata used in planted tanks. As mentioned by bbe22, Flourite by Seachem is one. Another is Eco-complete by Carib Sea. If money is no object, and you don't have to explain aquarium purchases to "non-believers", there is the substrata system by ADA using their aqua soil and power sand. ...and you thought reef systems were expensive (Grin)

If it's going to be discus, you may want a wet/dry filter, since it will do the reduction of ammonia to nitrite to nitrate very effectively. You may also want to filter the water through peat, as bbe22 does.
 

bbe22

Member
Great advice and good point Dave. I was under the impression that he was aiming more for a tank similar to mine because in his first post he mentioned he was looking into starting a tank for a few discuss. Mine is definitely focused on the fish over the plants.

I'd think about what types of plants you want to keep, what the scaping will look like, etc. I really wish my tank was wider, as it adds much more room for scaping.

My tank has a lot of plants in a lot of varieties, but most are native to amazon type waters. Not only are they somewhat "easy" plants to maintain, but having the right conditions helps them flourish. I was at a farmers market the other day, and a friend asked why nobody had bananas. The farmers response was that he had tried growing them, but they would only get about an inch long. This is what I was aiming for when I set this tank up, having a biotope as close to natural, (I consider mine an Amazon bio), as I could while trying to use as few chemicals as possible.

I did run co2 on mine for a period, but I must mention that I ran the co2 through an Eheim canister filter, (earlier I said I had never used a canister, but I meant as a main source of filtration), to be chopped and pushed directly into the water column near the bottom. After awhile I started to wonder if it wasn't necessary. So, I cut it off gradually and saw no difference. It was nice in the beginning though. There is also a lot of discussion as to whether co2 should be shut off at night due to ph swings.

I agree with Dave on fertilizers as well. I use them, just not a whole lot. Mainly when I do a lot of trimming or after water-changes. Another member here, PEMfish, has a good deal of experience with planted tanks. He prefers dry fertilizers, while I prefer liquids, specifically Seachem brands. It boils down to what you like and what works the best for you.

If you intend to keep plants for the aesthetics in addition to comfort value added to your fish, I recommend going with a wet/dry pouring into a large sump. If plants are more important, like Dave says go with a canister, but get a high quality one. My reduced water changes doesn't mean lower quality water parameters, it means the water is running at what discus prefer and makes them healthy. The guy I bought mine from won't sell you his fish if your ph is over 6.5. He is the one I mentioned who gave me a much better insight into keeping discus, with decades of insight, knowledge, and trial and error.

The benefits I find in running a wet/dry and sump is I can keep it raised vertically pouring into a rather large sump. The benefits are less top offs, although this is arguable, since I believe the evaporation rate is higher. Larger volumes of water are more stable, my sump adds somewhere between 15-25 gallons to my system if not more. The pure over-kill with the size of my wet/dry allows massive amounts of biological and mechanical filtration. Finally, it allows a place for more things that don't have to be in the dt, such as heaters, big bags of peat moss, uv filters, and anything else you may want to hide, (too bad skimmers don't work in freshwater).

To sum it up, I'm only offering what has worked the best for me, I've kept discus for about 9 years now. This is mainly a sw sight, but there is a freshwater section here. I think you will find a lot of insight and great advice from Davek, PEMfish, and Grendelprime as well. All have kept planted tanks, and most have kept discus.

Didn't mean to write a book, I apologize. Once again, good luck.
 
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Rep. Day

Member
This is great information and advice, thank you both so much.

My tank will be a discus tank and the live plants are because I have been told that is a great benifit to the discus...so that is the direction I am going with it.

I am printing off this thread to keep and read over more, this is so helpful.

Thanks,
Dave
 

PEMfish

Well-Known Member
I would not ever recomend Discus in a 55g. At least a 75g. And then 10g bigger per fish over 3 fish.
1-3 fish; 75g minimum
4; 85
5; 95
6; 105

As for my recommendations on plants; sure. But do not start with both discus and plants at the same time. One or the other on its own can as hard or harder than a reef to maintain. I recomend starting out with a planted tank, no fish, then once you've mastered that add a discus.


For discus any number of water changes in your rang would be insufficient. It is common for experienced keepers to do a 50% weekly. But if you do the slightest thing wrong in a W/C that big all your fish will go belly up. If you do not do enough or big enough W/C's all your fish will go belly up. See why these are advanced fish? I recommend two tanks; one display tank with your fish; 75-125g, and one for doing water changes out of; 40-75g. Do not connect the tanks in any way. Fill the smaller tank with tap water at the beginning of the week. Treat it, heat it and make it match the display tank water in every way know to man, fish, and alien ( Harness, PH, temp, etc., etc., etc., ... ) over the week then at the end of the week do a W/C using the water in the smaller tank. Repeat. Repeat again, and again, plan to continue this until you or your fish die, which ever comes first. See why these are needy fish? -That need a great deal of commitment. They're like a less furry puppy that easy to forget about and/or ignore ( with bad results ).

UV filters are like BMW's. No one really needs one. You can get by with out one. Many do. But the 5-star safety rating can give a peace of mind. Crashes are less likely and are less sever when the do happen. If you plan to drive like a maniac ( not QT the fish very well, or slack on maintenance program with the till death do us part clause ) then its worth it.
 

PEMfish

Well-Known Member
Oh , filtration, forgot the feature topic.

Canister filter.

I use and recomend the Fluvial series.

What ever filter you use double up on it. The ratings they put on filters are pure marketing BS.
You wouldn't trust your Chevy salesman when he says chevys don't need oil changes so why believe that tanks don't need proper filtration. Especially with delicate fish.

On a 75g I would use a pair of 305's or a 405. On a 125g I would use a pair of 405's.
 

Rep. Day

Member
Great info, thanks for your help bbe22.

For the 55 gallon I have decided to go with a Fluval 405. I know an Eheim was recommended but felt that the 405 looks pretty good also and should be more than large enough for a 55.

Dave
 
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PEMfish

Well-Known Member
With any post made keep in mind some information may work well for one person but not another. This is the internet, taking anything you read with a grain of salt. I am talking specifically about my posts here ( although of all the thousands of posts on online forums there may be others that this applies to, but they are not the topic now ).
 

OHmariner

Member
I didnt read all the other long winded responses but I saw some good advice....I use to breed discus and I always used the 'less is more theory' I have a 55gal with a 10gal quarantine tank. I used RO water for breeding and for my display tank I used tap water with water conditioner, and did 50% waterchanges every week with out ANY problems. I use to condition the water and that was just a waste of time. Just temp match the wather and pump it in. I used good water conditioner and freshwater salt.

I always ran aqua-clear filters with bio-media and two foams, i never ran carbon, i would occasionaly run chemi-pure ( in know it has carbon in it) but only if i felt the need.

I can post pics of my fish breed if you would like. I use to use platic pots and keep aquatic plants in the pots so I could still run a bare bottom tank. I thin the key to easy success with discus is to keep a bare bottom.

PM me if you have more questions, i use to know one of the best breeders discus breeders in the Cincinnati area and he use to teach me everything he knows, I learned a lot from him and his discus were AMAZING. Ill try to post a few pics so you know im not full of crap.
 

OHmariner

Member
"the king" checking out his babies, Mom is in the background
IMGP1585.jpg


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I can't find the nice pictures I have, these are old ones but you get the idea. A lot of people hated the way my tank looked but I loved it becuase it was soooooo easy to maintain and my fish were always happy too. In hind sight, i wouldn't recommend plants unless you can make sure they dont have hitch hiker snails. The only way I could deal with the snails was with Clown loaches.

I miss my discus lol
 

GrendelPrime

Well-Known Member
beautiful discus..when my discus tank was up and running it started with gravel but ended up a bare bottom with plants in pots similar to yours with drift wood and my filtration was a 30gal sump...and im realy toying with the idea of doing another discus tank.
 

Rep. Day

Member
Love the pics.

With the water we have, I am having a very hard time getting the PH as low as it needs to be and of course when I do water changes, the battle starts over again. I am afraid that discus might not work for me. I do have plants and some tetras in the tank now, everything is doing great and plants are growing very good, but my PH is to high for discus.

I am going to try some other things (suggestions welcome) to lower it and keep it down without buying water, etc... but may have to change my goal for this tank.
 

GrendelPrime

Well-Known Member
my discus were in very hard water and never had a problem..even had a proven mated pair..i notice with discus is that they will adapt to different types of water but the key is keep the water stable
 

Rep. Day

Member
Wow...I didn't realize that. I was under the impression that the water need to be around 6.5 or below, I can't get mine under 7.0, it is actually closer to 7.3.

I need to do more reading I guess. Thanks for that info!

Dave
 
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