Discouraged with fish!

[Brucey]

Dane ..... yep, you got it. Alot of people run inverse light photo periods on there macro algae to help with PH swings. The only downside I found to this was when I was doing on the fuge the dan light was never on .... LOL .... but a small price to pay. Good luck and let us know what your results show.
Bru cey

 

[JeepersReefers]

Ph was 7.8 to 8.0 with the lights out, i will measure when i get home from work and post it.

 

[gaubow]

Maybe I missed it but did anyone bring up the issue of acclimation procedures?

In the Chicago area, there are several choices of lfs to choose from... at least in my area. Of the four or five, I clearly have more luck with healthy fish from one, above all others. I often wonder what makes this so, but he claims to take the time to get his fish from vendors that he knows. I also wonder if his salinity and other water chemistry is just alot more similiar to my own.

 

[JeepersReefers]

Acclimation process is placing the fish and their water from the store in a bucket and slowley adding more water from my tank. usualy takes bout .5 to 1 hour.

The PH with the lights on is 8.2 that seems like a fairly small swing, but is that too much for fish???

 

[nigle]

Oi!

Well this IS an interesting conundrum. Chromis you can't keep? It's like saying you can't keep 'WEEDS'.

The acclamation question would have came up with your invertebrates since they handle 'change' worst than fish. If your shrimp and grabs are OK that 'shouldn't' be the problem.

You would think that if the corals are in bad shape, the fish would go 'next' but if your corals are OK........

If another person or persons don't have problems with the fish from the same store, than I would guess it's probably not the fish or the way they were caught.

A UV filter would take care of the 'buggies', but if the fish are showing no signs of disease before they die, then that might be overkill, but I feel that a UV filter kills more bad than good [i.e. coraline algae does NOT die if you put one in a reef tank!]

Are you sure you don't have a 'nasty crab?' or something like that?

Your prams are better than mine, I'm assuming that the 'water' is OK since your corals are doing OK..

You are feeding the fish right [sorry I'm running out of ideas here]
What are you feeding? I'm assuming again that it's a varied diet? I would not feed a hand made 'mush'. There is too much 'gunk' on store bought food that WE eat that can if not 'cooked' or prepared by 'fish food manufacturers' get into the tank and kill the fish.

How is the temperature? Is it fairly constant? That should also effect the corals too but the fish [well mine anyway] should take a temp swing.

You mentioned the mulitmeter, there will probably be 'some' charge in the tank, if not from the equipment, then at least from the meter 'reading' the charge.

Darn, I can't think of anything else, except a 'bad crab' but that 'should' have taken out the lawnmorer too.

I'll keep thinking.

Cheers!
nigle
!~!

 

[dgasmd]

Dude, don't be discouraged. I know exactly how you feel.

There are certainly a few possibilities to explore here. Some have been suggested:

1. Your store's source is cyanided fish. They will last between 1 day to 1 month looking great and all of the sudden they kick the bucket for no aparent reason.

2. Your store does not treat their system and has allowed some parasites to proliferate. A strong possibility. Ask them if they use any hyposalinity or cooper in their tanks. Most stores around the country do regardless of what they tell you. If you want to know for sure, next time you are there take a bit of their water and test it at home.

3. Just pure bad luck. Highly doubt it. 1-3 fish maybe, but not these many and the types you ahve in your list.

4. You have cultured some parasite in your system that you passed from your old one.

5. The parameters in your tank are just too unfriendly to fish and stresses them over time. This may be some habit you don't know of and have been doing since you started. Doubt it too since your corals are doing well.

6. Other unknowns. This is always a possibility.

I do have a few suggestions to rule out a few things. First of, try to go fishless for at least 6-7 weeks if you can. Try getting the one fish you have there out if you can by any means. Most parasites, including intestinal worms have a 4-6 weeks life cycle in the many life forms they go through. Fish is an intermediate host and so missing this host for that length of time will kill them. That include the other forms that will not find fish as a host too. Over that time, try to make you system as stable as possible. I would drop your salinity to 1.024-10.25 and would keep the temp no higher than 80F (77-78F better). Find out if you have any stray voltage.

As you start all this, start a quarintine tank. Very bare and simple with nothing but a heater and a biological sponge filter with a bubbler. Keep the same parameters as your tank. Nothing more. No LR, no sand, etc. You may throw in a piece of PVC for the fish to find it as a shelter and hide if he needs to. Buy 2 fish and put them in. Do a 15 min. freshwater dip (RO water to the same pH and temp as your quarintine tank). Then, add the fish to the quarintine tank and feed the living hell out of it. Do 50% water changes weekly to keep the water from fowling and vaccum the bottom. Any signs of ick and you treat it with cupramine.

That is a start.

 

[JeepersReefers]

Originally posted by nigle

Oi!

Are you sure you don't have a 'nasty crab?' or something like that?


How is the temperature? Is it fairly constant? That should also effect the corals too but the fish [well mine anyway] should take a temp swing.

!~!

Im not 100% shure that there isnt a second nasty crab in there. there was one that was about the size of 50 cent pice. I took care of hem with a fork off of the kitchen table.

the temp stays between 80-81. i have a titanium heater and a 1/4hp cliller to stabilize that aspect of the tank
Thanks
dane

 

[JeepersReefers]

Originally posted by dgasmd
Dude, don't be discouraged. I know exactly how you feel.

There are certainly a few possibilities to explore here. Some have been suggested:

1. Your store's source is cyanided fish. They will last between 1 day to 1 month looking great and all of the sudden they kick the bucket for no aparent reason.

2. Your store does not treat their system and has allowed some parasites to proliferate. A strong possibility. Ask them if they use any hyposalinity or cooper in their tanks. Most stores around the country do regardless of what they tell you. If you want to know for sure, next time you are there take a bit of their water and test it at home.

That is a start.

Im thinking that it has to do with the store where they came form. Over the last year i have become friends with one of the guys that works there. With hanging out and having a beer with the guy i have seen/heard the store ins and outs, some of its pretty scarry. From Half @$$ed bio ball rubbermade systems to filter pads that are older than dirt. To ocean water that comes in a rusty water tanker. Also ro/di water with a higher TDS than many cities water systems(120) tap water here is over 800 so i guess thats an improvement.

Anyway their system is so hevily saturated with copper, almost to the leathal point. I just found this out less than one hour ago.

There was two other people who were in there today that hve lost 3X to 5X the amout of fish that i have.

After all this good advice im not questioning my self but the LFS in LAs Vegas, unfortunatly they are the only ones other than A petsco or such warehouse pet store. In a city of 2Million people you would think that there would be more fish stores that cary marine fish, but there is not.
I think that im going to try my next fish from an on line vendor and see what happens.(some day)


Thanks again

 

[JeepersReefers]

Fish.... I quit

Well, I quit! I lost one more fish last night for no aparent reason. It was swimming around and eating at 5 pm. When i returned home around 8 pm it was dead, it had no signs of injuries, no spots or marks of any kind. It just died!

Im going to contune to keep a reef tank, but there's not going to be any more fish in the tank(other than the invinciable blenny). With some costly Jeep repairs looming over my head my setup will become a "fancy zoo and richordia propigation tank" for a while.

Fish suck, what is the trick to keeping them alive??????
Im going to get a goldfish and bowl and start from there, we will see if i can keep that:explode:

 

[Tarasco]

Sorry to hear that. A prop tank will still be cool, and I'm sure that the blenny will enjoy having all the space to himself!

 

[nigle]

Oi!

Do you have Fiji or Bali rock with lots of lovely nooks and cranies?

You might have a cone snail, that shoots nasty darts. That would account for dead fish that show no other signs of disease.

Your lawnmower and YOU might have been very lucky if this is the case. Do you have any snails that you don't remember buying? You might want to look at night when things are quiet and see if there is a cone snail wandering around. REMEMBER THE DARTS CAN KILL HUMANS TOO!!!!!!! If you see a snail that you didn't buy get it out of there with a pair of tweesers or net or something, this could be the problem.

I'm still of the opinion that if other fish from the store are still alive in other peoples tanks, no matter how they were caught then that isn't the problem, a cone snail unless you DON'T have one fits just fine as the reason why the fish are dying.

Cheers!
nigle
!~!