Discouraged with fish!

[JeepersReefers]

I know that this is totaly backwards from everything that i have ever ben told or have read, but i cant seem to keep fish alive, while i have fairly good luck with corals. I only ask this because when i returned last night my Sohal tang was MIA, later found in the back corner RIP. I have about a 70-80% fish loss rate as compared to only two out of 30+ corals in two years Is there any one eles out there that has problems with fish but not corals? What am i doing wrong?

At this point im thinking about doing an entire 220G reef with out any fish, other than a lawn mower blenny which i all ready have!

Hanging in there
Dane

 

[fidojoe]

Sorry to hear about your loss

Do you get all your fish from one place? If you do, try buying from a different source, the one place could have an internal parasite infestaion through their system. If LFS's are limited, try buying online. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Gina]

Is there any chance that they may have been caught with cyanide? How long do you have these fish before they die.
I am curious as to why this is happening to you also. Hopefully, we'll get this figured out!

 

[docspyro]

I agree with joe...a friend of mine had the same problem. He switched LFS and fish were fine. Many places near me seem to have sickly or dead fish in their tanks, so i stay away from them. Good luck.

Ray

 

[JeepersReefers]

They usualy kick off after the LFS stores 24 hour waranty expires but before a month in my tank. if it is the store then i will have to try on line ordreing, because there is only one store in town that has any kind of marine slection. A city with 2 million and only one LFS(well 2 but there owned by the same people) what gives????

But SinCityReefer gets all his fish from the same store and his live, so i think its me

Gina
i have no clue how they were caught, they claim they dont know, HMMMMM???
Makes me think now

Should i run a UV on my reef?
I feed the same homemade mix that SIN does.
I am open for suguestions, please

this makes me sick

The body count:
15 green chromis
1 Sohal
1 Red coriswrass (b4 corals)
1 P. Puffer (b4 corals)
2 diamond gobies
1 yellow tang
1 domino damsel

I like fish in my tank but unless i figure out what im doing wrong im going to stop the slaghter of poor fishes.


thanks
Dane

 

[sincityreefer]

Yeah... well... hm... Im not really crazy about were we get our fish from, they dont seem like the most responsible LFS ive ever seen but alas, this is vegas, and its like you said, the selection of LFS is well, limited.... Sorry to hear bout your sohal.

 

[Tarasco]

You may want to try captive bred fish. They are generally hardier than wild caught fish, my pair of clowns were the first fish that I bought, and they are still with me through all my mistakes and disasters. There are a bunch of online vendors that have them, and maybe you can request them from your LFS.

 

[beyondreef]

If you are second guessing your LFS you might need to evaluate your set-up also. My LFS 100% totally believes in stocking a tank with corals first and letting everything chill and then they add the fish. I thought it was backwards too but I've lost a few fish (mostly from a spotted hawk that went crazy on a few gobies) and all of my corals have been doing awesome. I'm not saying this is the correct way, just a simple observation. I've also noticed that as my system ages my fish seem to acclimate faster and more successfully.

 

[JeepersReefers]

Originally posted by beyondreef
If you are second guessing your LFS you might need to evaluate your set-up also.

Like what???? Im at a total loss here, because this is now the second tank that i am having this problem with. All new equipment(pumps, skimmer, refuge, sump, tank) All new and better(or just more expensive and bigger)equipment


If i choose to try more fish i will look in to captive bread fish for shure.

Right now im thinking about only a coral and invert only tank, but 220 is a ton of space for no fish

Confused and discouraged,
Dane

 

[mps9506]

You are checking that these fish are eating before you purchase correct? Thetangs should have a fat belly when you buy, make sure they are swimming and out and about when you purchase.
One thing with captive bred is that you really limit your selection to dottybacks,gobies, and clowns. I personally don't like dottybacks in reef tanks, but JMO.
What is stocked in your tank btw?
I follow the same suggestion as your store. I stock my cleanup critters first, then stock some corals after a few months, then add the fish last.

 

[JeepersReefers]

That Sohal was the best looking and most active one out of the whole bunch. It was also the only one that seemed interested in the food at the store. The clean up crew is in place allready (30+hermits and ??# snails) and there are only Zoos and richordias in this tank right now. The entire fish population in my 220g tank right now consists of a Lawnmower Blenny.

That list was from my old 135G setup over the last year or so, the Sohal was the first loss with this tank setup now. The blenny was a survivor from the 135G

I use RO/DI water all my prams. were good, Never seen signs of a mantis, or any preditors.

Ph 8.2
Amo-0
Nitates-0
Nitrites-0

 

[JeepersReefers]

equip:
over 200 lbs of LR
2X250 MH @ 10K
Aqua C 400 skimmer
40 g sump
sequence 6000 pump
25G refuge
4X SCWDs on the return
500w titanium heater

livestock:
asorted hermits
asorted snails
6 zoo colonies
3 rechordia colonies
and 1 blenny

 

[mps9506]

Maybe your LFS has a bad wholesaler is the only thing I can think of (poorly kept, badly shipped, or over cyanided). Your best bet is to look for red Sea or australian caught fish, they cost more, but are usually hand caught as opposed to cyanide captured like the fish from the phillipines and indonesia.
I get occasional customers who cannot for the life of them keep fish alive in thier tank. I always attributed this to people who throw too many fish in there too quickly.
Doesn't sound like you are doing that.
Wish I could help you more.
Mike

 

[Brucey]

Dane .... this really sucks mate and is a very sad tale. I'm guessing, but i think it is something connected to your tank that is giving you the problems. I'm not convinced by the theory that it could be cyanide or your LFS .... Just seems to much of a long shot.

I'm assuming all your params when you read them are fine. The most obvious answer i can think of is that it is connected to your params though. Fish have their own complicated set of defense systems in place to deal with bacteria etc which normally works very well. However, certain tanks effects can lead to stress of the fish and the eventual breakdown of these defence machanism's allowing bacterial infections etc to kill them off. I used to lose fish like you are in the early days of my tank (The first 6 months), but now I have not lost a single fish in over a year (Apart from a carpet surfer and two clowns that went over the weir). The main reason for this is a better understanding of what is going on in the tank and spending money. Your levels look fine but I'm wondering what other factors could be inducing this stress.

1. What are your PH Readings / Before Lights on and after Lights Off.
2. What are your salinity readings Before Water Top-up / A hour after water Top Up.
3. How are you dosing Kalk / Buffer / Calcium etc. All of which need to be done incredibly slowly.

Sorry for the questions but I'm guessing a swing of any one value could be stressing your fish out and causing the problems. For your info, my root cause was PH shock induced in the fish, with the PH swinging from 7.7 to 8.5 during thr datlight hours and then back again at night. Everything had ich and all succumbed to it in the end. Now I monitor PH and dose Kalk to stabilize it between 8.4 and 8.6. No more ich.

Anyway, HTH.
brucey

 

[JeepersReefers]

-I will have to check the ph at night... how long does it take for the ph to drop after lights out???
-Salinity stays right at .026(auto fill with ro/di)
-there is verry little Ca, kalk or bufffering done, the coral load is very low and weekly 35g WC has kept the levels stable.

Thanks Brucy i will check into the PH swings between day and night, every time i have checked the ph it has been during the day. Just so i dont go bald at 22 i hope that is the problem, im tired of pulling my hair out trying to deal with fish. Ill post the ph levels tonight.

Thanks again
Dane

Originally posted by Brucey

1. What are your PH Readings / Before Lights on and after Lights Off.
2. What are your salinity readings Before Water Top-up / A hour after water Top Up.
3. How are you dosing Kalk / Buffer / Calcium etc. All of which need to be done incredibly slowly.

Sorry for the questions but I'm guessing a swing of any one value could be stressing your fish out and causing the problems. For your info, my root cause was PH shock induced in the fish, with the PH swinging from 7.7 to 8.5 during thr datlight hours and then back again at night. Everything had ich and all succumbed to it in the end. Now I monitor PH and dose Kalk to stabilize it between 8.4 and 8.6. No more ich.

Anyway, HTH.
brucey

 

[Gumby]

Just a thought here and its probably a long shot, but could you have a grounding issue with your electrical stuff and the water?

 

[ScottT1980]

Dane, just wanted to tell you not to get discouraged because SW fish are TOUGH! I know a local reefer with a 500+ gallon tank that can keep any SPS in the world but has a very tough time with fish. His water is crystal clear and his system is as high tech as it gets and still, he has dealt with a number of losses throughout his tenure.

I think 75% of the problems result with methods of capture and the stresses of transport. You can have the cleanest tank in the world with minimal level fluctuations and still lose plenty of fish. It really is a sad part of the hobby and got me quite discouraged at one time.

I wish you the best of luck with it and I agree with pretty much allt he advise given you. Just do everything in your power that you can do but don't neccesarily assume that you are directly responsible for the fish's death.

Just some thoughts

Take er easy
Scott T.

 

[JeepersReefers]

Gumby- an electrical issue has also crossed my mind, although i dont have a grounding probe yet, i have tested it with a multimeter.

Scott-
Thanks for the words of encouragement, at least im not the only one

Im looking in to a PH monitor and a grounding probe right now as we speak(or type)

Thanks

 

[Brucey]

Dane .... the biggest PH swing is just before your lights turn on in the morning .... The PH has been dropping all night and is then at it's lowest point, upto it's highest point which is just as the light turns off at night. The algae's in your tank release oxygen all day long as they photosynthasize and push the PH high ..... hope that is the problem. It certainly was with mine
Brucey

 

[JeepersReefers]

Thanks Brucey
Ahhh. The light bulb just went on in my head. i'll have to try running my refuge at a inverse cycle. B4 i do that i will measure the ph swing.

Dane