Dead deli shrimp vs. liquid ammonia starter

jaysthename

Member
Hi all,

I recently spoke to the owner of one of my LFS shops, and he said that he found the idea of starting a new tank's cycle with a deli shrimp was "a little ridiculous" considering that he could give me some liquid ammonia to start it going, which would work faster with the added benefit of not having to remove the dead shrimp tissue.

I'd never even heard or the idea of a liquid ammonia starter. Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm sure the deli shrimp works well enough, but if I've got the option of going with something that's going to eliminate the question of if enough ammonia has generated (as well as prevent me from having to scoop out mushy shrimp parts or buying some nylons to put it in), then it sounds like a better option.

What are your thoughts?
 

deaclauderdale

Well-Known Member
I try and take everything that my LFS say with a grain of salt considering that the bottom line is profit for them. They always seem to have a miracle potion in a bottle that will fix the woes or anx of the reef keeper. If I were you I would buy the nylons and go with the shrimp, a natural and safe starting culture. And don't get me wrong what their selling may work, but then again it may not and your out the cash and a cocktail shrimp is all of a dollar. IMO
 

jaysthename

Member
Deaclauderdale, thanks for the reply. I forgot to add that he offers the liquid ammonia to all of his customers for free, so cost is not a factor and he's not trying to schyster me out of any money (at least, not yet ;)
 

jaysthename

Member
Ok, the LFS gave me a 2-lb bag of live sand mixed with liquid ammonia to seed my new tank with. It turns out that this is something he actually gives away free of charge to all of his customers. I was told that it usually accelerates the cycling quite a bit, and that I could bring in a sample of my water in two weeks and they'd test it for me to let me know. I'll keep you posted on what happens!
 

panmanmatt

Well-Known Member
I use liquid ammonia all the time to cycle tanks. I just buy the pure unscented ammonia from the grocery store. I only ad enough at one time to raise the ammonia level to 1.0. Once that is gone I add more to bring it up again. Do it for about 2-3 weeks and it can cycle a tank.

It is fantastic as you can control the ammonia levels and it doesn't add all the other bacterias a rotting piece of flesh can give off. I can cycle a a tank for any size bioload by adjusting the amount of ammonia I add to the water.

It also works great for keeping bio-media cycled for use in Qt tanks and other emergency situations. I have a barrel set up with base rock and spare sponge filters that I feed ammonia to every week to keep it alive. Once I use a sponge in a Qt set up, I can bleach it and add it back to the barrel to re-cycle it.
 

DrHank

Well-Known Member
A tank can be run in with liquid ammonia as long as it is pure ammonia. The thing is that you must keep adding it faithfully or drip it to maintain a concentration in solution for the bacteria to feed on. With the shrimp, as long as there is tissue decaying, you don't have to do anything but wait. If the shrimp dissolve, you just add more shrimp.

I've cycled in tanks both ways and I prefer the shrimp method as it requires even less work. Which ever way you choose, it's going to take the same amount of time. If you decide to do an ammonia run in be careful to only use pure ammonia not any of the sudsing ammonia's often used for floor cleaning.
 

sasquatch

Brunt of all Jokes~
PREMIUM
I think Woodstock used it for her QT, I once cycled a tank quickly by cleaning the inside with windex, I wouldn't recommend it lol, not a clue on the liquid ammonia
 

Woodstock

The Wand Geek was here. ;)
RS STAFF
I used pure ammonia AND some organic matter

Just a few details on the cycling method I am using on my hospital tank.

seahorse.org - Cycling a Marine Tank

I also add thawed mush along with pure ammonia per Leebca's suggestion. Doing that will cycle the thousand other types of bacteria :)


Quote:
Cycling with the ammonia method

Another method of cycling a tank that is increasing in popularity, is using 100% pure household ammonia. Instead of utilizing ammonia-producing organisms to start the cycling process, the ammonia method involves directly adding bottled ammonia along with a starter culture of bacteria.
The ammonia must be clear, unscented, 100% pure, and with no additives. However, you may find typical household ammonia to be mostly water with an actual strength of only 5–10%. Since the concentration may vary, you will need to experiment a little to find the right amount needed to cycle your tank.
When using the ammonia method, the necessary bacteria can be introduced to your system a couple of different ways. If you have access to an established and healthy tank, obtain a small amount of sand or gravel or even used filter media. This can then be placed in the tank to be cycled and will provide a starter culture of bacteria. Another option is to use a commercial preparation of bacteria, such as Hagen's Cycle, to introduce the nitrifying microbes.
After the tank has been set up and the bacteria have been introduced, begin to add the ammonia. If the tank is on the smaller side, start with only a couple of drops. Let it circulate in the water for a short time, and then test for ammonia. You want to raise the ammonia level to about 1–2 PPM Continue adding drops of ammonia and testing, while keeping track of how many drops total it takes to get to 1–2 PPM
Once you've reached the desired level, you now need to wait for the bacteria to multiply and do their job. It may take several days to a couple of weeks for your ammonia test to register zero. Once it does, add the same number of drops of ammonia again. Keep repeating this many times, each time waiting until ammonia reads zero, until finally the ammonia test goes to zero within 8–12 hours of the addition of ammonia.
When the tank is able to clear the ammonia within this time frame, that means that there are large numbers of bacteria present. At this time, test for nitrites. If nitrites are present, perform 3v4 more ammonia cycles to further establish the second group of bacteria. If the nitrite test reads zero, perform a very large water change and then you can begin slowly stocking your tank.
It's been suggested that elevating the temperature of the tank to the mid-80s F during cycling with the ammonia method can have beneficial effects. Just make sure that there are no animals in the tank being subjected to this temperature extreme (and ammonia), and also make sure to lower the temperature again prior to stocking.
Also, tanks with low alkalinity may experience pH spikes with the addition of household ammonia. These spikes may also hinder the growth of the necessary bacteria. To counteract the problem, use a good buffering product prior to cycling with ammonia, and perform a large water change after cycling (prior to stocking) to get pH levels back on track.
The ammonia cycles from 2.0 ppm to zero in 8 hours and the nitrItes are close behind. During the last few weeks, I have probably created about 6 or 7 'mini cycles' by adding ammonia; meanwhile waiting for my nitrItes to reach zero. The nitrAtes are of course off the chart but a 90% water change will remedy that.

Once cycled using the above method, I added all of my fish from my reef. I have had my eight fish in the tank for almost three weeks now. I test twice a day for ammonia, nitrIte, and every few days for alkalinity and nitrAte. During the 14 days of Cupramine treatment I was testing for copper twice a day also.
Every since the tank cycled the ammonia and trItes have stayed at zero!! I highly recommend the cycling process as noted above. It creates a lot of nitrifying bacteria that can handle a large bioload :thumbup:
 

jaysthename

Member
I like the old fashion way and just drop a few damsels in there!

LOL! Damselfish are not much loved in this forum, I've noticed ;)

Thanks to everyone for the input. Dr. Hank, I'll ask my LFS what they think about the drip or "controlled volume" method of introducing ammonia you mentioned. I was asked what size tank I have and how much live rock I had in there, and he measured out a certain amount of live sand and liquid ammonia that he said was ideal. According to him, they start all of their tanks in the store the same way.

If anyone is interested in reading some of their theories (which I'll admit, sometimes run counter to more commonly accepted practices), here's the website: SeaHorse Aquarium Supply
 

Frankie

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
I love damsels. I have three in my current tank. Two clown fish and one yellow tail. Damsels are just hardy fish. I cycled 2 tanks with them and had no losses.
 
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burning2nd

Well-Known Member
i like damsels.

but the shrimp works good... or a few frozen silversides.... at least that way you know your safe, Altho i think the liquid method is proably a little stronger,
 
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