Mike Johnson
Well-Known Member
I must have a weird stubborn issue too. Except sometimes I'll pay someone to fix my trucks. Can't be extremely good at everything, can you? Oh, and I hire welders, too.
Can't seem to shake this HA problem... Experts enter
- Thread starter Lee
- Start date
Lee
Member
Ah, forgot about auto mechanics. I'm with you on that. Auto mechanics is miserable work. I used to do all sorts of mechanic work, from oil changes to serious car modding, but once I hit 30, I declared I was done with all that. I now leave it to the pros
I'm no expert but I'll toss this idea out there for discussion. You say you've had your rock for 8 or so years. I've "read" that live rock can lose its luster after a while (8 years was quoted in the article)..... Old rock syndrome or what ever.
The reason I bring this up is because you've tried everything and I've seen successful, algae free tanks with your husbandry so it's possible. With your equipment, husbandry and knowledge, I tend to think it not something obvious (or really obvious).
Ever think about switching out maybe 1/4 of your rock every few months until you cycle through all of it?
The reason I bring this up is because you've tried everything and I've seen successful, algae free tanks with your husbandry so it's possible. With your equipment, husbandry and knowledge, I tend to think it not something obvious (or really obvious).
Ever think about switching out maybe 1/4 of your rock every few months until you cycle through all of it?
Lee
Member
There will undoubtedly be some die-off of the bacteria, but it repopulates pretty quickly. I've got enough equipment to handle the biological filtration while the LR repopulates its bacteria supply
Lee
Member
When I re-read my build-thread, I realized that what I said about the LR was wrong. I bought 90 pounds of new LR from F&S, and then I bought another 90 pounds, then I added my remaining LR from my old tank, so there is about 250-300 pounds in there, and 180 pounds is new.
But I am interested in this concept. Do you remember where you read that?
foxsavage
Member
It's a long article but it says live rock should be replaced every 5-10 years because the creatures inside die. http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/61875-what-live-rock-anyway.html
Mike Johnson
Well-Known Member
The rocks that we put in our tanks are sometimes thousands of years old. I have rocks that have been constantly wet in an aquarium for near 20 years. A lot of people use dried rock or ancient quarry rock. I'm not buying the "replacing old rock" theory.
Reading the articles listed here I noted a few points listed: 1. Benign neglect - lack of maintenance and regular water changes. 2. High nutrient levels. 3. Build up of detritus.
By doing the things we have discussed earlier we have addressed all of these issues. You can have a tank for many years and not have "old tank syndrome". And, you can restore a tank from early demise by exporting nutrients and detritus and stepping up maintenance.
Reading the articles listed here I noted a few points listed: 1. Benign neglect - lack of maintenance and regular water changes. 2. High nutrient levels. 3. Build up of detritus.
By doing the things we have discussed earlier we have addressed all of these issues. You can have a tank for many years and not have "old tank syndrome". And, you can restore a tank from early demise by exporting nutrients and detritus and stepping up maintenance.
That's it!
I'm not saying it is old tank syndrome but throwing that topic out there for discussion can get people thinking differently. Live rock in a captive environment has the possibility to get depleted of its goodies over time..... That theory makes perfect sense to me. Now for Lee, I'm not sure if its the case given everything he has said..... Again, just for discussion.
Paul B
Well-Known Member
I won't give any of those answers as I don't think any or all of them will do anything. 1,000 lettuce slugs will also not work nor will snails or urchins. Your tank also does not have Old Tank Syndrome as mine is over 40 years old. I would not clean or cook the rock or remove every bit of detritus. I would not dim the lights, feed less or change the water.
First I would like to say that hair algae is a normal part of any reef. I will post a picture I took a couple of weeks ago of a reef in Hawaii.
Yes, I know we don't want hair algae growing in our tank and I am not suggesting you grow it there. But hair algae is the best eliminator of hair algae. You just have to grow it someplace else that has better growing conditions. As I said my reef is over 40 years old and in that time it has had cycles of hair algae many times in the past. It always went away on it's own but for the last 8 or 9 years I installed an algae trough which has better growing conditions than in my tank. It is a shallow trough or tray above my water that has a light over it and good water flow. Algae grows in there and none of it ever grows in my tank.
Any lighted refugium will work as algae is self limiting and can only grow if it has enough nutrients to grow. As soon as it depletes those nutrients, it instantly stops growing and starts to die. If it dies in your tank, those nutients will go right back into the water fueling more algae. If adding snails or changing water would work, why are there so many threads about hair algae? That never works and changing water may make it worse. Algae needs more than nitrates and phosphates. It also needs iron and when you change water, you add more iron. But whatever algae needs, it doesn't matter because you can learn to live with it rather than trying to eliminate it as it is natural and not harmful. It is actually healthy as long as it grows someplace other than your corals.
Hawaii a couple of weeks ago.
Lettuce slug, I used to raise them and wrote an article about them. They don't eat hair algae.
My tank maybe 20 years ago with a nasty hair algae cycle.
My reef today, no algae in the tank, only in the algae trough.
My Grand Daughter, she has nothing to do with this thread, but she's cute so I put her in.
Some may agree and others may not however, if it were my tank (as I did to my 125) I would go get yourself two of these. About $19-$30 each depending on where you get them. My LFS stocks them regularly.
The only one drawback is if it dies they can be toxic to the tank. I had one die on me and didn't find him for 3 days with no ill effects.
He's hough to make out in the picture but it is a sea hare. (google it)
They cleared my cyano and HA issues in less than a month and honestly I've given up on snails.
The only one drawback is if it dies they can be toxic to the tank. I had one die on me and didn't find him for 3 days with no ill effects.
He's hough to make out in the picture but it is a sea hare. (google it)
They cleared my cyano and HA issues in less than a month and honestly I've given up on snails.
i havent viewed your thread in a while so i dont know what your filtration is like but i thought id throw this out there.... i dont typically run any sort of sponge filters or socks, but to help control detritus ill throw some in and blow off my rocks with a powerhead. ill lightly blow the sand to because i dont like to vacuum it. after its filtered itself for a couple hours ill pull them all and clean them. but in all honesty i havent had any noticable hga in so long im not even sure i remember whats effective and whats not.
Lee
Member
I like what you're saying, and agree. I guess I thought my refugium (cheato and cualerpa) was supposed to be doing this; growing algae there instead of in the DT.
Anyway, if its not too much trouble, would you mind posting a picture of this HA growing trough? I'd like to see exactly what you're talking about.
Lee
Member
I do exactly that with both powerheads and a turkey baster. I stuff the overflows and my sump with a filtration fabric and clean them out daily. Works great for removing the nasty dead algae.
This is where I need to be. I used to absolutely love my tanks, now I almost hate them. They used to represent joy and now they represent death and misery. I built that complex LED light setup so I could get into corals, but I don't want to put anything alive in there anymore...
Paul some of your older pics have broken
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...n/32411-tank-turned-40-year-6.html#post679914
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...n/32411-tank-turned-40-year-6.html#post679914
i would like to clarify that i will get hga in my sump(fuge section). people say to remove it to export the nutrients but i have never once cleaned my sump with the intentions of exporting nutrients(not advocating any specific method). all i really have in there is a very small amount of chaeto and a dsb with like 10 lbs of rock. right now theres like a 6x8 inch patch of hga and a little cyano but my dt is clean as can be.
Lee
Member
What type of fuge lights and how many hours/day? What kind of water flow (if any) in the fuge?