Can we talk Phosphates?

[Brooksy]

Hey Everbody,

So I'm not sure if I have a phosphate problem or a test problem. Ever since my tank first cycled (about 4mths ago) my phosphates haven't changed, they hold at .25ppm. I don't think that's super high but I'd really like to get them to zero. I've gone through a few algae problems that I believe were all part of the uglies. I had diatoms at about the 6 wk mark, then green algae all over the glass that required scraping 2-3x a day, and now I have algae growth all over my substrate. I started running a media reactor when I had the growth on the glass, about 2 months ago. ran phosphate sponge for about a day and a half and since then I've been running carbon and GFO. So I know phosphates can get trapped in LR & substrate where you can't test them. I'm not sure if that's what is happening or I need a better phosphate test? (I use a API one now) Or is this still part of the uglies? I do 10% WC weekly (RO/DI) and did a extra one last week to try and help fight the algae.

My levels as of yesterday were,
SG-1.024
pH-8.2
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-0
Phos-.25ppm
Cal-420

Is there anything else I should be testing for that might affect phosphates?

I'd like to hear any thoughts out there

Thanks

 

[steved13]

What test are you using? Many have a scale that has 0.00 and then the next color is .25, so almost anything looks like .25. Also IMO, not very usefull when the target is .03 or less. When you consider that even the test that measures down to .05 is missing the target.

The only thing I have found that I can use for phosphate is the hanna checker, but it's a little pricey initially.

 

[cheeks69]

I've gone through a few algae problems that I believe were all part of the uglies. I had diatoms at about the 6 wk mark, then green algae all over the glass that required scraping 2-3x a day, and now I have algae growth all over my substrate.

The algae problems are confirming your test kit results, did you cure your LR in the display ? How much are you feeding and how often ? Which types of food are you feeding ? Is this a reef or fish only ? If this is a reef are you target feeding your corals and if so which foods are you using ? Which skimmer are you using ?

 

[Doogle]

I started getting bacteria mats on my sand and a little hair algae and cyno recently when I started using Rod's reef original. I don't skim or have reactors so I added a half unit of chemi pure elite and a full unit of chemi pure to my 29g and its looking better already. I read that you should rinse rod's and other foods with ro/di to lessen some of the phosphates, I have been feeding less and upping the flow as well as siphoning my sand. I want to ditch the sand altogether really.
Good luck

 

[Brooksy]

I use a API (brand name) test for phosphates. And yes the test goes from 0 to .25ppm and sometimes it's hard to tell exactly where it's at on the scale, a lot of the time the color looks lighter then the color for .25 and closer to 0 but never as yellow as zero is suppose to be.

I did not cure my LR, about a third of it was dry and most of the rest came from a tank that had been up for 6yrs.

I feed once a day a combo of half frozen mysis, half frozen brine, a drop of extreme garlic and a couple of drops of selcon. I feed that around 2/3 of the time the other 1/3 I feed pellets. I put seaweed in the tank usually twice a weekend reef roids once a week. I know a lot of people only feed every other day but fish eat everything so quick, I'd say less then 90 sec and they all attack the seaweed when I put it in.

It's a reef tank with a zoas colony, brain coral, torch, and mushrooms. I spot feed the torch & brain with the shrimp mix and give the rest the roids.

I use a coralife 125 protein skimmer. Not the best one out there I know now but it'll have to do for a while. It works well thought always produces lots of good dark, smelly stuff!:drooool:

 

[ddelozier]

are you using RO/DI to makeup your saltwater for water changes? Phosphates are common in municipal watter supplies in 10X the numbers we consider bad for our reef aquariums. Algae growth proves that there is a source for Phosphates. Are you planning to run a skimmer? I've found my nitrates and phosphate levels dropped radically after i got a high quality skimmer.

In my humble opinion, finding out how the phospates are entering your system is at least as important as removing them.

 

[cheeks69]

The phosphate could be coming from the pellet food, I know that flake is loaded wth po4. There's obviously a nutrient issue it could also be from the LR that came from the established tank. Here's a good read:

Randy Holmes-Farley:

Problems involving phosphorus and subsequent algae growth can be among the most difficult to solve in a reef aquarium, especially if the live rock and sand have been exposed to very high phosphate levels, after which they may be acting as a phosphate reservoir. Fortunately, steps can be taken even in the absence of any algae problem that will benefit reef aquaria in a variety of ways, not the least of which is reduction of phosphate levels. These include skimming and growing macroalgae. All reefkeepers, and especially those designing new systems, should have a clear idea in mind about how they expect phosphorus to be exported from their system. If allowed to find its own way out, it more than likely will result in undesirable microalgae that many reefkeepers are constantly battling.

Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium

 

[ronnunan]

I only feed nori, use a hanna checker, consider using gfo, maybe get some PhosE from bright well to bring it down. Phosphates are a huge factor in coral growth. If my phosphates are above .03 I start looking into what the problem might be.

 

[Brooksy]

are you using RO/DI to makeup your saltwater for water changes? Phosphates are common in municipal watter supplies in 10X the numbers we consider bad for our reef aquariums. Algae growth proves that there is a source for Phosphates. Are you planning to run a skimmer? I've found my nitrates and phosphate levels dropped radically after i got a high quality skimmer.

In my humble opinion, finding out how the phospates are entering your system is at least as important as removing them.

I am using RO/DI and I've been skimming from the start.

 

[Brooksy]

Is there anything in thr frozen food i'm using that could raise my phosphates? Should i rinse it before i put it in my tank? I think I'll get some Phos Sponge and see if that helps at all.

 

[tekjunkie28]

Anyone agree with me about phosphate leeching from the live rock that's 6 yrs old?
I think it may be your problem. Also how big is this tank and which skimmer do you have

I hate having crabs.

 

[steved13]

Just to be clear in the quote by Robert above from Randy Holmes Farley:

All reefkeepers, and especially those designing new systems, should have a clear idea in mind about how they expect phosphorus to be exported from their system. If allowed to find its own way out, it more than likely will result in undesirable microalgae that many reefkeepers are constantly battling.

The reason is, you cannot avoid introducing phosphates into your system. Phosphates are one of the building blocks of life. Just about all food contains phosphates. Obviously introducing more than neccessary (most common is overfeeding) should be avoided...but since you will introduce phosphates a method of removal is required.

 

[ddelozier]

If you are using RO/DI water for SW mixup and skimming, then the phosphates are being introduced to your system either by leaching, less likely with rock that old, though possible. (if the previous owner used Tap water to make saltwater,the Rock can absorb phosphates). The other common way phosphates can enter a system is through fish food.

 

[Brooksy]

I got the 6 yr old LR from the Mom of my LFS guy. So I'm pretty sure it was RO water because I know he uses it in his store and she works there from time to time. So I guess I'll have to reevaluate my food and how much I'm feeding.

Thanks for the advice everyone!

 

[steved13]

At .25 or less I wouldn't worry about the leaching, I'd focus on removal but; If you want to check the rock for leaching, mix a fresh batch of salt water in a bucket large enough, test (should be 0.00) place a rock (remove as much debris from the rock, you want to avoid old food skewing the test) in the bucket with some sort of circulation, and test in a few days, if it's still 0.00 no leaching, if it's elevated it will give you an idea of how much leaching.

I like the bio pellets for removal of nitrates and phosphates. Since I still feed, both are being introduced and I still get some algae, mostly because I overfeed which elevates the levels briefly and feeds the algae, but after a few hours it's all back to 0.00, some bound in the algae and some taken care of by the bacteria fueled by the bio pellets.