Battling man eating bryopsis. Who is winning?

dgasmd

Member
Well, given this forum is new and this is a common topic, I will talk about it for a few lines.

I have a 360g SPS dominated tank with lots of fish. I feed extremely heavily and will admit to not having as much flow as one should. Remedy for that in the works. I also have a DSB that was brand new when the tank was set up a year ago. At about month 3, I developed a small path of this chia pet looking thing I did not know the name of at the time. A local reefer came to check out the tank and pointed out to me the following: "You know what that is? That is bryopsis. If you don't get rid of it now it will take over your tank". Thanks Geofloors for showing me the road to missery:grind: :barf: :grind:

Over the next few weeks, this devil sent malady took over my tank to the point it was even sophocating some of the corals. Half the tank's rocks could not be seen anymore because they were covered with this crap. I would pluck it out and nothing. It would come back in 30 new spots. I even spent 15 hours one day just plucking it out strand by strand only to have it back in the tank 6 days later as if it had never been touch. It was about 6-8" tall in some spots I could not reach readily. It was as if it was nuclear powered.

As part of my trying to get rid of it, I started frequent water changes and started a 100g refugium that ran 24/7 in hopes to starve it out. To my surprise, the refigium would grow tremendously to the point of filling out 1/2 of a bucket of salt every other week just from the trimming/harvesting. So, what did it do the bryopsis? NOT A DARN THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was lucky enough to attend MACNA this year and was present at one of the talks given by Mike Paletta. Mostly talked about his book, but the last 15-20 min. was the most revealing and rewarding part of the trip to me at least. He explained how he had basicly the same problem in his 500g tank. He even showed some pictures. He then went on to explain how the phosphates we test in our water are the inorganic form and the form that fuels all algae and are a rate limiting step in their growth are the organic phosphates. As simple as it may sound, I had no idea whatsoever, although I guess if I had given it some serious thought before I could have figured that out. He then went on to explain how he got this god sent product called Rowaphos (imported from Germany and very expensive) and after 10 days of putting it in his sump, most of his hair algae was gone. In about 20 days corals that had originally been burned at the based by the algae were growing back over the same spot and how his tank was as clean of any pest algae as it could be dreamed of. I will also leave out the part where he got a different skimmer and Ca reactor, both of which he advocates and also SELLS now. Anyway.

I thought about this and to make it even easier on me, I saw that Julian Sprung had a table with some free samples of his phosphate removing media version called Phosban. I took some of the samples and talked with him a bit. He claimed it worked at least just as good as the Rowaphos and was significantly cheaper. I said fine, if you give me enough to treat my 550-600 gal system, I will try it. So, he stepped up to the challenge and gave me 5 of the 150gr containers to try (could treat 750g since 1 gram treats 1 g of water). Little did I know how much this stuff cost at the time, but I did look it up when I got home ($14 each).

I added it to the sump. It took a good 3 weeks, but my tank is almost completely free of this pest algae. Not only that, but I continue to feed heavily and my refugium is has stopped growing. It has been about 5 weeks since I last trimmed the refugium and even then it was a small bowl. What is left can be plucked easily, but I have not had the time lately to get my hands in the tank and do it yet.

Moral of the long story: there is always a solution, but one has to be patient. I am a true believer in this stuff now. The $70 dollar investment Julian Sprung spent on me that day at MACNA he will collect in profits from me buying this stuff for life many times over. It is just that simple.

Hopes this helps someone else.
 

reefshadow

Member
wow, good info, Dgasmd!

Just out of curiosity, what kind of herbivorous fish do you have? I am allowing a fairly significant amount of bryopsis to grow in my 80 gallon fuge, but both my vulpinus foxface and my purple and sailfin tangs love to eat it! It has not shown up growing in the display, though I sometimes give them a bit for a treat. They love it!

I used to post at ultimatereef frequently and rowaphos is all the rage over there. (england). I gather it is based on iron oxide rather than aluminum like most phosphate removing products in the states. Many people use it passively in a mesh bag or else they convert a chamber w/ very slow flow rates through it. I'm not sure why it's not readily available in the states because a similar product is used in some waste treatment facilities. I'm sure we'll see a version of this here soon.

That was really nice of Julian to give you all that product! man!

Seeya, Becca:)
 

Woodstock

The Wand Geek was here. ;)
RS STAFF
I like stories with happy endings :D

Would you happen to have a pic of that algae?
 

dgasmd

Member
Reerfshadow:

I added 2 different foxface fish with the sole purpose of esting it. Both not only ignored it even when starved seriously, but they are food hogs, which increased wastes and increased nutrients to feed the darn thing. My other 5 tangs won't touch it either. I even bought a few lettuce nudibranchs and they would eat it at such a slow pace you could literally see it grow above them while they were eating. As far as reproduction, I am almost certain it was fragmentation because it was ina single spot until I decided to pluck it out the first time.

Maxx:

Obviously a typo. It is ship!

Woodstock:

I'll see if I can find pictures.

Alberto:smirk:
 

mojoreef

Just a reefer
Good story Alberto, glad that passed u by..man what a drag that must have been.
Just to give a little light for a few folks taht maybe reading your story. Inorganic phosphate is basically phosphates that we add to our tank via food, additives, AWS mixes and so on. OUr hobbist test kits measure this type of phosphate only. These kinds of phoaphates are bound almost immediatly by biological forms both by animals, vegitable and bacterial. Once bound it becomes organic Phosphate and with the exception of one test kit (Hach I believe) we cannot test for it. A good way to know you have organic phosphate, beyond an algae problem is is you still have inorganic phosphate you probibly have a ton of organic.
As Alberto pointed out using biologiical means to try o eliminate it is really just another cycle (as in the fish eats the algae bound with it and then poops it right back out again, making it available). Pretty much all algae have a last fight responce to being attacked by releasin spores, thus propagating the species..
Alberto Rowa is a good product, I ave also used it. It is expensive but I think it will be very affordable in the near future as the distributors are bringing it in on mass. (by the way this is the same manufacturer as the media for the deltec reactor). Thier is another product that also works well. Its from proline and is sold by aquatic ecosstems. I also run this product, it lasts longer in the water and will not release afterit becomes full.

Good post

MIke
 

Hooked

Member
Great info thanks. I'm fighting bryopsis and have been testing for phosphates and only showing a trace. I have Phosban, but haven't used it for that reason. I'll be adding it to my sump tonight :D

Also good info about the method of reproduction. I had been hesitant to manually remove it because I was afraid it would spread and sure enough, the first time I gave in a pulled some of it, it ended sprouting in many new places.

Thanks again
 

sharks

Contributing Member
Great thread and info guys. :thumbs:

Mike what is the name of the product in the aquatic ecosystems catalog?
Do you guys think this will help me with my problems with Brown Wafer Algae? (Lobophora variegata)
Here is a link to the stuff
http://www.globaldialog.com/~jrice/algae_page/lobophora.htm

Admittedly I overfeed and worse I don’t always rinse the prepared foods. My REF grows like mad and I’m chucking 1 Lb per week. I have coralline everywhere except where this garbage is taking over :explode:
S
 

Curtswearing

Active Member
Thanks for opening up this topic. You will help a lot of people with it.

I haven't used the phosban but I have used the Rowaphos (which I like a lot). My leather corals close up if I use any other brand.

BTW---people hate it when I make this recommendation because it is so much work. If you have a horrible problem, I believe in pulling algae off of the rocks in a bucket of water from a recent waterchange. Then rinsing WELL with saltwater before returning it to the tank.

I feel it is imperative that we limit the Input side of phosphates. This can be done in numerous ways. Never overfeed. Watch what you feed. Use good quality water for top-off's and waterchanges.

Here is an excellent article on the subject called Phosphorus: Algae's Best Friend.
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9
 

Hooked

Member
I wanted to bump this up and also ask another question....

Does anyone have any experience with the effect of magnesium levels on bryopsis?

After doing some research I found some references to this and checked my magnesium and found it was only 1120 ppm, which is also the level in a batch of new water using IO salt mix. The Salifert test kit recommends 1300-1500 ppm magnesium, but I believe natural sea water is 1285 ppm.

So, I'm working on increasing my magnesium, which should take about a week, but am wondering if anyone else has tried this and what the result was.

TIA :)
 

mojoreef

Just a reefer
Sharks the product I use is called Proline phosphate remover. it is not as good as the phosban or the rowa. I use it because its cheaper and has always been affective for me. link below. Sharks its hard to say. The best fight you can put up is to try to kill it at the source. If you do this eventually it will fade away, or be over grown back by the coraline.
http://www.aquaticeco.com/aquatic1v...flag=0&iteminfo4=0&itmid=9579&passitemid=9579

Curt you lost me on the part about cleaning off the algae and then putting it back in???

Limiting phosphates is a tough one folks, vertually everything we add to the tank has it in it. Once this inorganic phosphate hits the tank it is bound up mostly by bacteria, planktonic sources associated with DOC's , DOMs and detritus in general and by vegitation. It is a cycle, food hits the tank, bacteria and plankton eat it or begin to reduce it and bind it to themselves. They have very short live spans and die making the phosphate available again, then it is taken up by algae and/or bacteria once again which in turn die as they run out of a food source and the cycle starts all over again. Tough to break it. Alot of folks pull the algae and that in itself will export, but u run into the problem of the algae sporing. Algaes in a refugium tank will work but they have limited access to the phosphate do to thier location. The best location I have found to combat it is at the substraight level (as this is where most of the DOM's, detritus and so on accumulates). This would mean sand and LR. Good flow will stop detritus from landing on the rocks and will allow the detritus to be removed via the overflow and then to your skimmer. Sand is a little tougher exspecially if its a DSB, and I dont want to go thier, lol.
Picture it this way, the detrius is waste and will bind phosphats and other nutrients just as your algaes do, removing it is as important as harvesting your algae. Every place you have algae in your tank, sand rock and so of nutrients under it or flowing over it. Its the only way it can survive, remove that source and you are on your way.

Hooked I have heard some talk on the magnesium limiting factor on bryopsis, but to be honest I dont know enough about it to give you a good answer.


Mike
 

Curtswearing

Active Member
Originally posted by mojoreef
Curt you lost me on the part about cleaning off the algae and then putting it back in???

I don't like people to manually scrub LR in the tank or manually remove nuisance algaes while the rock is in the tank. It just migrates.

However, if someone has a bad infestation, I will sometimes tell them to do a waterchange but keep the old water in some buckets. Then I tell them take a rock out, dunk it in the bucket, pull off the turf algae. Then rinse well with newly made saltwater before putting the rock back in the display tank. This has worked well for several people.

You have more experience with me. Have I been giving bad advice?
 

Maxx

Well-Known Member
You have more experience with me. Have I been giving bad advice?
Well there was that one time with the midget and baby oil....uh, nevermind.....I don't know nuthin....it didnt happen....you cant make me tell you.....
 

Cosmic

Member
Curt,
I've done exactly what you propose on several occassions over the years. If you are going to scrub them, I feel it's more helpful to do it outside the main system.

DGASM,
Good to see you found your way over here! I got a sample of the Phosban from Sprung also and I have to admit that it made a huge difference in my tank as well. I was beginning to see all sorts of nuisance algaes pop up shortly before using it, and have always avoided the Aluminum based products like the plague. Once added, I began to notice a major difference in the system w/i a few days. Just want to note that my PO4 levels have always tested low also, giving good evidence it was helping to remove organic based PO4.

Great Topic D :)

Cos
 

sharks

Contributing Member
That is what I’m wondering about. My water always tests almost 0 PO4. I am assuming the calerpra in the REF and the algae’s in the tank take it up so quick I never see them.
I just ordered the Phosban. I should get it early next week. I will post my results.
S
 
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