Alk/DKH to high, and why?

[Pro_builder]

It has been 10 days since I did my 90 gallon water change to remove the phytoplankton in the tank. I had a Major green water problem. So bad that I couldn't see the back of the tank. That is when I put the Refugium on the system, so there was another 75 gallons of fresh salt water also added the very next day, so 9 days on that new water. This system is running over 330 gallons of water. I am evaporating at about 4 gallons per day.

 

[Boomer]

Orp 354 (Is this ok, it used to be at 410)

It is changing because of all the messing around and all the new salt additions. New salt is around 275 mV.

10.9 or even 11 is normal for IO these days.

This is my fault :verymad: The first thing I should have asked you is What Salt Are You Using :verymad:

Your low Alk demand, the high Alk of IO and the use of Kalk is what is pumping up the Alk to this 16 so it would normally seem. But the kalk is off correct ? So leave it alone and watch the pH and Alk and let them come down. There is nothing wrong with a Alk of 11. That is our max limit for a reef tank. I would stay with IO for now.

Your Alk can not rise from a WC when the salt mix is 11 dKH from 16 to 18.8. It has to go down unless you're adding a buffer of some kind. Have you ever added anything like Purple-Up to the tank ? Do you have any DIY rock ? What kind of sand do you ? If you Alk raised up that much the Ca++ would have to go up not down, if something is dissolving in the tank and I do not buy that..

What you say makes no sense. It is like someone is dumping in baking soda in your tank when you are not around

Take a sample of your 18 dKH or what ever water to the LFS and have them check it on a different kit. That is the only thing that makes sense a testing error or bad kit. Or something in the tank is interfering with the kit. Yah, I know you have two already, Salifert.

If your tank consumes 20 ppm Ca++ it has to consume at least 2.8 dKH, as long as no buffers are being added

 

[Pro_builder]

But the kalk is off correct ?
Yes, it is off and has been since you told me to. :smirk:

It has to go down unless you're adding a buffer of some kind. Have you ever added anything like Purple-Up to the tank ?
No, nothing that I have added, but I have no idea what the LFS could have added to the tank that he had the LR in at the store.

Do you have any DIY rock ?
Not that I know of. I talked to the owner of the LFS and he says that he gets all of his LR from Walt Smith

What kind of sand do you ?
I am running Southdown sand (400 lbs of it. Seeded from LFS established tank.)

What you say makes no sense. It is like someone is dumping in baking soda in your tank when you are not around
My wife doesn't touch the tank, so that isn't an option.

Take a sample of your 18 dKH or what ever water to the LFS and have them check it on a different kit. That is the only thing that makes sense a testing error or bad kit. Or something in the tank is interfering with the kit. Yah, I know you have two already, Salifert.

Ok, just got back from the LFS, he tested it 2 times with a LaMonte test kit and a Salifert test kit of his own. Salifert reads 17.5 on both tests and LaMonte reads 18.1 on both tests.

How long should it take to drop this tank down?

Would a bad skimmer have anything to do with these readings?
I just bought a ETTS 800 but don't have it installed yet. The current skimmer is rated for a 900 gallon tank, by Emperor Aquatics for a commercial tank. Just a thought.

What are the chemicals or things that could happen, that would raise alk Besides Kalk, Baking soda, washing soda? Just trying to think of the things that I could be missing or overlooking. I have brand new RO membranes and filters coming Monday for my 300 gpd RO unit. Thinking maybe that will help.

It doesn't look like I have had a snow/ percipitation storm in the tank. If that would have happened, would that have changed the chestry of the water?

I am lost and about to give up and tear it all down and start over. :bugout:

Oh, by the way I am on Well water with an IronOX system and a very large water softener, plus RO/ DI Unit.

Could my DI unit be bad? or leaching crystals into the RO water? They are the color changing type and aren't purple.

All help is Greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!! You have been a tremendous help.

 

[Boomer]

Sorry Troy, I just read all of that and there is nothing there that I can even remotely think of that can rasie your Alk, which appears to be rising, and seems to me doing so by Magic

It will take days to drop it down. Let it run, do nothng and just check the pH, Alk and Ca++ every other day and see what happens, is all I can tell you.

 

[Pro_builder]

Ok will do, I don't see any other choice.

 

[Pro_builder]

Boomer here is an update. There is no additives of any kind being added. I have just been replentishing with RO water. No water changes since 11/5/2006.

Orp 289
pH 8.02
Temp 79.9
Alk 15.2
Ca++ 470

What do you think?

 

[Boomer]

I still have no clue unless something in the tank is going into solution. We just had another guy on our chem forum with a similar situation. I beat on him like you Low and behold he got another test kit, even though he tested it and the LFS tested it, all those kits (3) where bad and read Alk to high. Not the new one, it was right where it was suppose to be. I also PM Randy about your problem, in case there was chance I missed something. He is as clueless as I and gave the same answers as I did.

Only 5 things can cause this

1. Testing error or bad kit

2. Something going into solution like a DIY rock or something that is not suppose to be in there.

3. Purple-Up or similar.

4. Bad batch of salt with high Alk.

5. Somebody is dumping in a buffer and you do not know it.

As I said before your Alk appears to be rising by Magic and that can not happen



6. A wild crazy theory. You have to much buffer in the seamix, bad batch and for some unknown reason, magic, it is not going into solution but when it hits your tank it them goes into solution==> High Alk

7. Wild theory #2. You are pulling on my chain and you are a Troll

Math;
If the new salt is 10 dKh and you do a 50% water change with the tank at 15, then resulting dKh has to be around 12.5, it can not go up higher than 15. I might add your Ca++ as also jumped up again from 395 to 470. And your tests from new salt in bucket is nowhere near that. Conclusion, there must be something in that tank going into solution. Find it

 

[Witfull]

troy, when you set up the tank, did you use any dry base rock that may have come from terrestrial location? this could be slowly leaching ALK.

 

[Pro_builder]

All rock came from Online store and local fish store.
No base rock used.
I did get another TDS meter and tested my RO water going into the tank, I am at 42 PPM TDS. Could this have something to do with it?

Boomer, I'm not a troll and pulling your chain. I think it is time for a complete tear down of the tank, and start over. :bouncebox :smck: :grr:

 

[Boomer]

, and start over

I don't like that idea Troy. Let it run for a month, maybe it will work itself out.

Troy measure the pH, Alk and Ca++ of the RO water. Then measure the pH, Alk and Ca++ fo the tap water. Not that it will mean much. If I assumed that 42 ppm TDS was all Calcium, then 42 x.40 = 17 ppp Ca++ added to the salt mix. If I assume it was all Alk 42/50 =.84 x 2.8 =2.3dkH added to the salt mix. BUT that does not show up in the salt mix test, as the salt mix is giving like 380 ppm Ca ++ and 10 dkH already mixed in the RO. So, the 42 ppm is meaningless. The rise, if there is one, is from/in the tank only.

 

[Pro_builder]

Boomer,
I may feel really stupid after this post and your answer.....
I just came in the house and my wife was vaccumning the floor next to the tank and also in the basement near the sump. No big deal, till I found out that she was using that Arm n Hammer Baking soda carpet fresh. Now don't get me wrong here it wasn't just a sprinkle here and a sprinkle there. The floor was white!! So, I look at the box, it has Baking soda in it, to nuetralize the odors......... Now she vaccumns Everyday, after I leave for work. :smck: :rollingey
Would this be enough baking soda getting in the air to cause this problem with the Alk?
Needless to say, she doesn't use anything on the carpet from now on. I threw the box away! :whstlr: I figure I need to let the tank sit for awhile to let it come down and wo a test on it after a week, then 2 weeks to see were I am at then.

What is your take on all of this??????

 

[Boomer]

Nope Troy the wife is safe "I think" She would have to be sprinkling it in the tank all most, as if it was the floor.. Putting it on the floor would not produce enough dust to raise the Alk that much and then there is that calcium rising and there is no calcium in BS. 1`teaspoon in 50 gal will rise the Alk 1 dkh and your alk is going upo like 2-3dHK. Your tank we will say is like 200 gals net water, so 200 / 50 = 4 x 2 or 3 = 8-12 tsps she would have to get in the tank. Based on your posts that is like here putting in 3-4 tsps / day. Maybe she is being a good wife and helping you with your pH by dumping some of the box in the sump Maybe there is a Baking Soda Fariy in your house

 

[Pro_builder]

ok, just a thought.

 

[Pro_builder]

Here are the param's for RO water:
pH: 6.5
Alk: 1 DKH
Ca++: 25 ppm
Orp: 225

Tap water:
pH 6.65
Alk: 1.25 DKH
Orp: 275

 

[Pro_builder]

The LFS that I bought 30 lbs of my LR from uses Kalkwasser and Purple up in his tanks.
Could the purple up be adding to my problems with just this small amount of his LR addition? I alny have 30 lbs of his and 120 lbs of International Marines LR.

I still haven't done a water change since 11/5/2006, almost a month, at that point I did a 90 gallon water change, since I had the green water problem.

 

[Pro_builder]

If my problem is from the purple up that he uses, how do I get rid of it?
Also, my pH is riding drastically (at least me me), It never gets below 8.27 and risies to 8.35 durning the daytime (lights on). Any good ways to drop this? I have my fuge lights on reverse of the tank.
Also, starting to get the slime algae back, just in case that is an indicator of something that might help.

 

[Boomer]

Your pH is perfect, most wish they had that. NSW is 8.3

Your RO is also Ok.

It may be the PU I don't know. But I do not see it being the PU, not just from some LR and all the WC' you have done. It is not the kalk he used. If it is the PU it will work itself out of the system in time but I do not buy the PU theory in your case.

 

[Pro_builder]

ok, thanks, should I resume my water change schedule then? Or let it sit for a while longer?

 

[lgerold]

Hi!

What about your salinity? Do you trust your reading? I mention this because my calcium was running very high, and I couldn't get it down. I found out that my salinity readings were way off - reading much lower than actual. So, as I corrected (lowered) my salinity the calcium level dropped into normal range.

Justa thought...

 

[Pro_builder]

Salinity is right on at 1.026 by a Refractometer and LFS Refractometer.