A whole bunch of critters

[Oxylebius]

Yeah, I believe it is a Aeolidiopsis (either a A. ransoni or a A. harrietae).

Here are some links for A. ransoni:
http://www.seaslugforum.net/find/aeolrans
http://www.seaslugforum.net/aeolransbiol.htm

And for A. harrietae
http://www.seaslugforum.net/aeolharr.htm

I was hoping it was one of these guys (http://www.seaslugforum.net/solarpow.htm), who eat algae, but I don't believe it is. You can see how close they resemble the ones listed above.

All these nudis take zooxanthellae into their bodies. But the Aeolidiopsis species take zooxanthellae from corals where the solar slugs takes zooxanthellae from algae. You don't want any nudis in your tank that take zooxanthellae from your corals.

Here is some info on how they feed on zoas: http://www.seaslugforum.net/palyfeed.htm

I'd look up how to dip your corals to get rid of them. There is a lot of info on the net on dipping to get rid of zoa nudis.

 

[DaveR11]

Yeah, I believe it is a Aeolidiopsis (either a A. ransoni or a A. harrietae).

Here are some links for A. ransoni:
http://www.seaslugforum.net/find/aeolrans
http://www.seaslugforum.net/aeolransbiol.htm

And for A. harrietae
http://www.seaslugforum.net/aeolharr.htm

I was hoping it was one of these guys (http://www.seaslugforum.net/solarpow.htm), who eat algae, but I don't believe it is. You can see how close they resemble the ones listed above.

All these nudis take zooxanthellae into their bodies. But the Aeolidiopsis species take zooxanthellae from corals where the solar slugs takes zooxanthellae from algae. You don't want any nudis in your tank that take zooxanthellae from your corals.

Here is some info on how they feed on zoas: http://www.seaslugforum.net/palyfeed.htm

I'd look up how to dip your corals to get rid of them. There is a lot of info on the net on dipping to get rid of zoa nudis.

Thanks Oxy. The photos I have best matched A. harrietae. I will get rid of the one in the bowl in the sump and keep checking the Zoas in the tank. All my Zoas have been spreading nicely but one of the few corals I've had trouble with was a frag of some Palythoas. How specialist are these slugs - is their diet limited to individual species or to a genus or family?

I've looked up Zoa pests on here. Unfortunately I've puttied in some of my zoas so going to be difficult to dip them but as I love tank watching I will try manual removal. I also have something (a worm I suspect) building a tube of coral sand fragment in one of my Zoa colonies. The colony looks fine but I've yet to catch sight of the critter making the tube. Photos will follow if I do!

 

[Oxylebius]

Photos are always helpful. BTW, that is one spectacular close up photo your provided!

Their diet is specialized. Very specialized.

As for that tube dwelling one. Did you read the links I provided? There is a description of a tiny clear tube-type one that is really hard to see.

From this link: http://www.seaslugforum.net/aeolransbiol.htm

"The two colour phases are related to symbiosis with zooxanthellae. The brown speckled form has many zooxanthellae within the cells of the digestive gland; in fact the colour is zooxanthellae pigment. The translucent white form has very few zooxanthellae in its tissues. Whether the two colour forms are merely phases in a cyclic turnover of zooxanthellae or distinct physiological variants must await further study. Among the specimens I have examined there are no intermediates. The two colour forms also differ in behaviour. The brown-speckled form was always found crawling on the surface of the Palythoa colony, whereas the translucent form burrows under the surface of the colony. Beneath the thin epidermal laver of Palythoa, in the region between polyps, there is a layer of sand grains incorporated by the colony into a subepidermal skeleton. The translucent form tunnels through this layer, making a groove overlain with sand grains embedded in mucus. The animals are nearly invisible in the field and were found by bringing colonies back to the laboratory and leaving them in shallow dishes of sea water until the animals crawled out. There is an obvious correlation between the surface living, brown-speckled form having abundant zooxanthellae, and the burrowing, translucent form with very few. Obviously the burrowing form is shaded and zooxanthellae would not be in an optimum environment, but why some members of the species should burrow and others not is an unanswered question at this stage."

 

[DaveR11]

Photos are always helpful. BTW, that is one spectacular close up photo your provided!

Their diet is specialized. Very specialized.

As for that tube dwelling one. Did you read the links I provided? There is a description of a tiny clear tube-type one that is really hard to see.

From this link: http://www.seaslugforum.net/aeolransbiol.htm

"The two colour phases are related to symbiosis with zooxanthellae. The brown speckled form has many zooxanthellae within the cells of the digestive gland; in fact the colour is zooxanthellae pigment. The translucent white form has very few zooxanthellae in its tissues. Whether the two colour forms are merely phases in a cyclic turnover of zooxanthellae or distinct physiological variants must await further study. Among the specimens I have examined there are no intermediates. The two colour forms also differ in behaviour. The brown-speckled form was always found crawling on the surface of the Palythoa colony, whereas the translucent form burrows under the surface of the colony. Beneath the thin epidermal laver of Palythoa, in the region between polyps, there is a layer of sand grains incorporated by the colony into a subepidermal skeleton. The translucent form tunnels through this layer, making a groove overlain with sand grains embedded in mucus. The animals are nearly invisible in the field and were found by bringing colonies back to the laboratory and leaving them in shallow dishes of sea water until the animals crawled out. There is an obvious correlation between the surface living, brown-speckled form having abundant zooxanthellae, and the burrowing, translucent form with very few. Obviously the burrowing form is shaded and zooxanthellae would not be in an optimum environment, but why some members of the species should burrow and others not is an unanswered question at this stage."

Yes. It says 'beneath the thin epidermal layer of Palythoa' but then say 'in the region between polyps, there is a layer of sand grains incorporated by the colony into a subepidermal skeleton.' which is what confused me. This is a tube of coral sand grains between polyps not as far as I can see subepidermally, which is why I had taken it to be some sort of annelid. Just had a close look at the Zoa colony. I couldn't see the tube but I did catch 2 more slugs! I will have a really good look tomorrow as I know missed 2 tiny ones.

Here is the first (big one) in the sump from the top.



And one of the ones I've just caught.



Thanks for the photo compliment. I have a good camera (Nikon D810) and macro lens (Nikkor 105mm).

 

[Oxylebius]

Again two more AWESOME pictures!

Sorry to say that one of those looks like a aeolid of some type, which means its not going to be good in a tank full of corals. I

In looking over all the different pics you posted. It looks like you have at least three different species.

 

[Oxylebius]

One of your original pics looks like this one:
http://www.seaslugforum.net/find/ercocoer

 

[DaveR11]

@Oxylebius I've been picking over the Zoas today and the tally is now 5 different slugs. Here are some new pictures from the tub I have them in the sump.... I'll send the pictures to the address you suggested. Very many thanks!

The biggest slug (from last night) plus another new one:


Another much smaller slug:


The left hand slug is another new one:


The final small slug.


I have also seen eggs laid onto the Zoa polyps but I can't easily prise them off....

 

[Oxylebius]

Definitely different species. Some are zoa nudis, others I'm not sure of. I know you had some Elysia slugs as well, that is why I suggested the ID site to submit your photos at b/c if you have other algae eating nudis then you want to keep those.

Eggs on the zoas is not good. You need to get those out.

Maybe it is time for a wrasse: yellow coris, melanurus, and many others are good predators of nudibranchs and other small pests. My leopard picked away at the flatworms until they were gone.

 

[DaveR11]

Definitely different species. Some are zoa nudis, others I'm not sure of. I know you had some Elysia slugs as well, that is why I suggested the ID site to submit your photos at b/c if you have other algae eating nudis then you want to keep those.

Eggs on the zoas is not good. You need to get those out.

Maybe it is time for a wrasse: yellow coris, melanurus, and many others are good predators of nudibranchs and other small pests. My leopard picked away at the flatworms until they were gone.

Thanks Oxy. Tommorrow is tank maintenance day so I will have another crack at the nudi eggs. I'm getting my eye in and caught another two tiny slugs this evening on my Zoas.

I've seen leopard wrasse is my LFS and they are spectacular. You have Macropharyngodon bipartitus in your tank? It going is to be at least 7 weeks before I can get any fish back in the DT with the Ich problem. I have been looking at the advice on quarantining wrasses and I certainly don't want another Ich problem. So my questions are:

• Best to quarantine and treat for worms rather than put the fish straight into the DT? In which case I will need a bowl of sand in the QT.
• They are predatory on small inverts so my growing small crustacean population is going to be good food. What else will they eat? I have lots of small snails (mostly Stomatellas I think). Will they take a battering from a leopard wrasse?
• Is covering the tank a must? Not a problem for the QT as it has cover glasses but will I need to do it for the DT?
• Get more than one fish?

Many thanks in advance.

Dave

 

[Oxylebius]

• Best to quarantine and treat for worms rather than put the fish straight into the DT? In which case I will need a bowl of sand in the QT.

I've used Dr. Gs products. Only one product I used and that was the Anti-parasite caviar.

It seemed to work. Started in QT. And then moved to feeding the DT.
NOTE: I deviated from the directions slightly. Knowing that this is a medicated product and knowing that I was feeding a DT full of sps corals, I took extra precautions. I made sure I used carbon and replaced it weekly. Did weekly water changes. I also strained all liquid in the sink before putting the caviar into the DT (no liquid entered the DT). I feed very slowly so that no caviar fell on the sand bed or corals (all was eaten mid-water). I used it last year at this time, from Sept - Nov. I also feed the fish a variety of other food after the medicated food was consumed per every other feeding. If you don't feed the caviar first, I found the fish wouldn't go for it. But, to keep a balance diet, I made sure that after every other feeding of the medicated caviar, that the fish had some other food type as well.

• They are predatory on small inverts so my growing small crustacean population is going to be good food. What else will they eat? I have lots of small snails (mostly Stomatellas I think). Will they take a battering from a leopard wrasse?

Wrasses will go after pods. You will have to replenish. If you have a mandarin or plan to I'd suggest you avoid wrasses. OR make sure you replenish your pod population every four months, or so. Replenish more or less based on how well the pod population is repopulating itself or is getting depleted.

My stomatella snails were wiped out by my cleaner shrimp long before the wrasse was added. So not sure if the wrasse would harass the stomas.

• Is covering the tank a must? Not a problem for the QT as it has cover glasses but will I need to do it for the DT?

Ah yes, covering the tank. This would be something to look into. If it is recommended to cover the tank, then take that advise for the fishes sake. If you don't want to cover the tank, then avoid the wrasse.

• Get more than one fish?

Not sure what your bio-load currently is. Some of these wrasses do stay small. You will have to make up your own mind if getting another fish is something you can or want to do.

 

[DaveR11]

I've used Dr. Gs products. Only one product I used and that was the Anti-parasite caviar.

It seemed to work. Started in QT. And then moved to feeding the DT.
NOTE: I deviated from the directions slightly. Knowing that this is a medicated product and knowing that I was feeding a DT full of sps corals, I took extra precautions. I made sure I used carbon and replaced it weekly. Did weekly water changes. I also strained all liquid in the sink before putting the caviar into the DT (no liquid entered the DT). I feed very slowly so that no caviar fell on the sand bed or corals (all was eaten mid-water). I used it last year at this time, from Sept - Nov. I also feed the fish a variety of other food after the medicated food was consumed per every other feeding. If you don't feed the caviar first, I found the fish wouldn't go for it. But, to keep a balance diet, I made sure that after every other feeding of the medicated caviar, that the fish had some other food type as well.



Wrasses will go after pods. You will have to replenish. If you have a mandarin or plan to I'd suggest you avoid wrasses. OR make sure you replenish your pod population every four months, or so. Replenish more or less based on how well the pod population is repopulating itself or is getting depleted.

My stomatella snails were wiped out by my cleaner shrimp long before the wrasse was added. So not sure if the wrasse would harass the stomas.

Ah yes, covering the tank. This would be something to look into. If it is recommended to cover the tank, then take that advise for the fishes sake. If you don't want to cover the tank, then avoid the wrasse.


Not sure what your bio-load currently is. Some of these wrasses do stay small. You will have to make up your own mind if getting another fish is something you can or want to do.

I've had a quick look for medicated products here in the UK and not found anything. I think our regulations around medicating animal feeds are different to the US. I'll do some more research if I do decide on a wrasse (and they do look fabulous). My sand is a mix of coral gravel in the front corners where the finer sand was getting blasted away but is mostly fine coral sand.

My cleaner shrimps don't seem to be touching the snails. I'm seeing hundreds of tiny snail and saw my first two small Trochus today so they seem to be breeding. This is the bigger of the two.



The snails should have more to eat with no tangs or angels to compete with for 8 weeks.....

As ever thank you for all your help and advice.

 

[DaveR11]

@Oxylebius . After watching the tank on and off all day and getting some of the unattached Zoas out for a detailed check out the tally was as follows:

• 16 slugs caught of various sizes (though none anyway near the first big one from yesterday)
• 10 egg masses removed.

This morning before the light went on I saw an annelid coming out from the Zoa rock I have on the sand. This is same one I mentioned in earlier in this thread as having a coral sand tube. It was too quick for me to get a photo. It almost seemed to be investigating my Mexican Turbo snail which was nearby. It moved pretty quickly, faster than the bristleworms I have. It had at least 4 tentacles and could have had a 5th..... I've examined the rock in detail - it is full of holes and there were coral sand tubes glued to the underside of the rock. I could not prise anything out of the holes with my needle nose forceps... Going to keep it under close surveillance in case it is a Eunice....

 

[Oxylebius]

Wow, you have a lot of hitchhikers!

 

[DaveR11]

Wow, you have a lot of hitchhikers!

And have you seen my other posts tonight.... I have not been dipping new corals so I guess it is a bit of Russian roulette but I guess like live rock you get good and bad and it has been fun rock watching. My work is terrestrial ecology so the marine species are mostly new. Takes me back 30 years to my degree so good fun. I just hope I'm not taking up too much of your time!

As for the slugs I've been getting good Zoa growth so I wonder if they proliferation of slugs is very recent...?

 

[Oxylebius]

Nope, not taking up my time. Takes me back to the days when I was diving, identifying and surveying intertidal and subtidal critters.

Dipping and QT'ing are always important. A little extra work up front can save a lot of headaches later on.

 

[DaveR11]

Nope, not taking up my time. Takes me back to the days when I was diving, identifying and surveying intertidal and subtidal critters.

Dipping and QT'ing are always important. A little extra work up front can save a lot of headaches later on.

So what about beneficial HHs on corals like symbiotic Acro crabs? Do you dip everything or just those that have the possibility of hiding some nasties?

 

[DaveR11]

Got another so the tally is now 17.....

 

[Oxylebius]

There are beneficial hitchhikers. Acro crabs can be pushed out of a coral prior to dipping the coral. The crab then can be added back to the coral once it is acclimated to the tank water.

Even the most experienced in the hobby sometimes don't follow their own advice at times. When this happens there are risks.

I didn't dip any of DianaKays corals when I got them. The gsp was packed with tiny pods and brittle stars. I took a risk. Knowing that Di is fighting some ugly algae, I was risking bringing spores or tiny particulars into my tank.

All the recent frags I picked up at macna, I dipped before adding to my tank. Some were super clean and others had tiny worms and other super tiny things swimming around the bottom of the bowl that they were dipped in.

I am one that opts for new live rock with lots of hitchhikers. Makes the tank more interesting. Others don't want to deal with hitchhikers. This is a preference. No right or wrong way of doing it.

 

[Ceejai777]

This was an interesting thread read. The risk of bad hitchhikers is a bit scary but I lean toward Oxylebius's view of them making a tank more interesting. My view might change if I ever have a catastrophic event due to a hitchhiker.

 

[PCDS]

I recall how excited I was when I saw an asterina star fish appear on the glass of my first tank. Great pictures Dave.
Where do you buy your corals and live rock from?