40g Breeder First SW Tank Setting up.

crystalnjohn

New Member
Hi everyone, This will be my first saltwater tank ever. I have had freshwater tanks in the past so I'm not a total newbie to aquariums. I have always loved the beauty of sw tanks, but don't have a lot of money to budget getting a bigger tank right now, and after talking with my local sw aquarium store I have decided that a 40g breeder will be good enough. (for now) [emoji12]

My plan at the moment is to "try" to do things right from the start and not be in a rush to get things set up. That is why I am here, for advice and to share with you all, my journey in reefing.

The only equipment I have at the moment is the tank. I found it at a DAV for $45 brought it home and filled it to check for leaks. It held over night so first step is complete.

uploadfromtaptalk1470939329011.jpg

Now my next step is a stand. I'm not sure if I will buy one or build one. Then on to all the other equipment which is where hopefully your advice will come in.
My goal for the tank is viewing pleasure so I will want to focus on rocks and coals.

Any input on equipment would be greatly appreciated. I can't afford the best there is so I'm looking for moderately priced, I'm not going to just buy the cheapest things possible because I don't want problems down the road. Like I said b4 I want to try to do things right and am willing to save up for the right equipment rather then get set up right away.


Sent from my Z820 using Tapatalk
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
Some general comments...

As for stands, you can save money if you build one. Buying one is a lot less work and saves some time. If you do opt to build, make sure your knowledge and woodworking skills are up to the task. That 40 gal tank is going to weigh in at about 425 lbs by the time it's all set up.

As for viewing pleasure, this depends upon who is going to be looking at the tank. A dedicated reef keeper will appreciate the corals and so on, but your average person is going to appreciate the fish to a greater extent. Fish move around, corals don't move around much.

On equipment. Always buy top quality. This doesn't necessarily mean most expensive. Often there are some lower priced items that are just as good as the most expensive. Top quality equipment will last, and best of all you'll only need to buy it once.

On cost in general. SW systems can burn through a lot of money fast. It's true you can save a lot by going the DIY route, or looking for good used equipment, but some things you can't cut corners on. There are also a lot of questionable products out there that a lot of people like, but really are not needed. Don't spend your money on those.
 

Squatch XXL

Well-Known Member
@DaveK Gives great advice. If you are new to SW, than there is LOTS of information out there. There are many many "tricks" and tips that are specific to certain things. There is a whole catalog of things to douse into your tank from alcoholic beverages to pickle juice powder......

The best thing you can do is take your time. Nothing at all good comes from rushing. I am in a camp of thought that it should be many months before adding livestock other than a clean-up-crew.

Personally, I would steer clear of any and all of that for the first year. Keep it simple at first. The most budget friendly and simple method is the "Berlin" method. It uses a minimum of equipment, but also limits the amount of bio-load from fish and their feedings.

Another reason I would say this is because these tanks have a very profound impact on their owners. It seems that many of us quickly "realize" that the perfect sized tanks are simply too small.

I kept a 75g reef years ago, and had to give up the hobby for over a decade.....My supplies were long gone when I restarted with a 40g last spring. It was an budget driven build, but after a bit of time I realized that it was too small for long term addiction...I mean "hobby", not addiction. It is not an addiction because I can stop whenever I want.

I am dropping a link to my 40g chronicle. It may help you to see some of my mistakes. There was lots of DIY involved because I am cheap and refuse to pay for a product that I can make.
 

crystalnjohn

New Member
@DaveK Gives great advice. If you are new to SW, than there is LOTS of information out there. There are many many "tricks" and tips that are specific to certain things. There is a whole catalog of things to douse into your tank from alcoholic beverages to pickle juice powder......

The best thing you can do is take your time. Nothing at all good comes from rushing. I am in a camp of thought that it should be many months before adding livestock other than a clean-up-crew.

Personally, I would steer clear of any and all of that for the first year. Keep it simple at first. The most budget friendly and simple method is the "Berlin" method. It uses a minimum of equipment, but also limits the amount of bio-load from fish and their feedings.

Another reason I would say this is because these tanks have a very profound impact on their owners. It seems that many of us quickly "realize" that the perfect sized tanks are simply too small.

I kept a 75g reef years ago, and had to give up the hobby for over a decade.....My supplies were long gone when I restarted with a 40g last spring. It was an budget driven build, but after a bit of time I realized that it was too small for long term addiction...I mean "hobby", not addiction. It is not an addiction because I can stop whenever I want.

I am dropping a link to my 40g chronicle. It may help you to see some of my mistakes. There was lots of DIY involved because I am cheap and refuse to pay for a product that I can make.
Where is the link? Would love to take a look.

Sent from my Z820 using Tapatalk
 

Squatch XXL

Well-Known Member
Where is the link? Would love to take a look.
Hahahah, I did totally forget to include it. However, If you look under my photo of Dirty Harry, you will see an area with the text "Reef Chronicle" and a link. This works for everyone who creates a reef chronicle page. If you are new and going to create a reef tank, it is a great way to show off where you are and get great advice.

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forum/index.php?forums/reef-chronicles.62/



Mine is here:

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forum/...antis-out-with-the-old-in-with-the-new.94653/
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
Sometime I got to put up a reef chronicle. I will retire in the not too distant future, and maybe I;ll have time to improve my photography skills. I think I;ll call the thread "DaveK's Algae Farm"
 

Leandre

New Member
as a fellow beginner reefer, i echo whats been said.
but afew things first, this is knowledge that i have learnt over the months ive been reserching. this is by no means a definitive guide. also the fact i may be wrong. if i seem to be belittling you on your knowledge please know i dont do it on purpose. some things you might know im just assuming you dont.....and...sorry about the long post.

making a diy stand isnt as hard as you think, youtube is your friend. the king of diy has alot of videos on this stuff and will help alot.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCM9oZkV3tGJuUUhgZaiGZkQ

as for the rest of the stuff, planning and research are very important. understanding what does what and how will teach you what you need to configure for your tank and its needs. last thing you want to do is do something wrong and you cant undo it without moving a heavy tank. this includes plumbing, what type are you using? a 40g breeder that doesnt have any pre drilled holes is gonna allow you to do what you want. whether is be a coast to coast, ghost, bean animal, durso. all require planning and understanding. looking at your picture. it looks like your gonna have to drill your tank to install an overflow. which is another headache in itself.
once you know how things sort of works (its an never ending learning curve) you can begin to cut down on cost. eg, using braided vinyl tubing will save you alot of money over hard piping. wont look as nice but does the job.

where you keep your tank and your noise tolerance will really dictate you on the equipment section.
if you dont mind the humming from pumps and such then you have a larger list of equipment you can buy. like everything in this hobby, you really do get what you pay for, as mentioned above. buying something better with a little cash would mean it last longer. last thing you want is to have something break down and you're paying over the top for something quick to replace.

for me, im doing a mix reef tank, so this list is what i feel (i really have nothing to gauge this on lol < beginner too) is the most important:

1 lights: essentially you are trying to recreate the ocean in a confined space. alot of the parameters you can replicate. but the sun? thats a lot harder to copy. but the lights are really dependent on the types of coral you want to keep. easy corals like mushroom and leathers require very basic light and can tolerate harsher water parameters, lps like torches and hammers also very beginner friendly. plus they sway alot and look pretty. these kinds of corals you can get away with led lights. amazon has a lot of "made in china" lights that are pretty good. leds also gives you very nice shimmer! but, if you want lights that will grow with your needs as a hobbyist, i would say splash the cash and go with T5's
T5's will grow anything. ATI and Giesemann come to ming but will cost alot. so someting like:
http://www.marinedepot.com/Coralife..._Fixtures-Coralife-ES08600-FILTFIT54U-vi.html will be perfect and at a very affordable price.

2 powerheads: for me flow within the tank comes 2nd. as with lights its very dependent on what corals you have. the general rule of thumb is x10 for lps and x30 for sps. so if your tank is 40g. you're looking at 400gph turnover for lps and over 1200gph for sps.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/sicce-voyager-nano-530-gph-stream-pump.html are nice, affordable and good. bare in mind that its best to get two powerheads and have them mounted on each side of the tank alternating to give a "wave effect" eg left on > right on > both on etc. a simple pump controller can make this effortless http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/sicce-wave-surfer-controller.html

3: ato: auto top off. for me this is very important. you are gonna have evaporation on your tank, its gonna happen. which means you're gonna have to top off freshwater every so often. if not your salinity is gonna go out of whack. investing in a goot ato not only does it for you. but does it well. saltcreep is a problem on equipment you rely on that moves such as float valves. and could mean that your ato doesnt even know it needs to be on. of course this is mitigated by good husbandry. but honestly, id really go for the osomolator by tunzes. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/tunze-osmolator-universal-3155-auto-top-off.html pricey? yes but its worth it. other alternitives are the http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/jbj-a-t-o-water-level-controller.html

4: heater: depending on where you are from this could either be a "not so important" to "this is what keeps my tank alive!" im from CA and so far my heaters havent tuned on yet....the avarage reefer aims to keep their tank at the 78f mark. with most heaters having a -+2, the 78f allows for the fluctuations between the +-. most heaters will work the same brand new, its when they're older that you may see problems. heaters breaking while on is the worse thing that can pretty happen.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/cobalt-neo-therm-submersible-heater.html are really good heaters, i have one from when i had freshwater, alittle pricy but worth it imo. on a buget ive read that http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/eheim-jager-trutemp-aquarium-heater.html are good and affordable.

5 return pump: the heart of your system! as long as you dont mind the slight hums, rio pumps are tremendously inexpensive and work really well.

6 skimmers: ive put this on 6th because i really dont have much knowledge on this. i know how they work and why people have them. but ive read that some people dont even have them and some swear by them. aquamaxx and bubble magnus do affordable skimmers that ive been told work very well despite their price.

honestly though, even at sale time, most of the items are above are still expensive. if you are not in a total rush i would really join a local reef forum and troll there used sections. alot of the time you will get very good deals. reefer to reefer is always better then craigslist.

for me, these are the main equipment you're gonna need. i mentioned at the beginning of the post about the plumbing. this is because of of this equipment has to go somewhere. for that you'll need a sump. the plumbing is a means to get the water from your tank to the sump and back up again,
making your own sump is actually really easy, again watch the youtube videos from the link above.

other equipment such as media reactors are really useful and something you should be looking to get in the future. but for now, it can wait. last advice i can give you is, dont be afraid to ask questions. reefers are nice people and are very willing to answer your questions.

not to show off, but this is my setup http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forum/index.php?threads/hello.97150/#post-1324873

sorry for the long post and good luck to you!!
 

crystalnjohn

New Member
Update:
I have decided to drill the tank for a sump, I found a 20g tank for $10. I also found a decent stand for $30 its an entertainment center and seems to be very sturdy and will hold the weight, hide my sump tank ect. I also went ahead and bought pump, 2 power heads, heater, sand, rock, and salt.
Lighting will be next.

Sent from my Z820 using Tapatalk
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
...
5 return pump: the heart of your system! as long as you dont mind the slight hums, rio pumps are tremendously inexpensive and work really well.

...

I generally agree with your post, but I have to take exception here.

In my opinion, you should never ever use a Rio pump in any critical area of your reef system. I speak from experience. At one time I used several of them on my reef. I had read posts about some people having problems with them, but I figured that it must be something they were doing wrong, after all the ones I had all seemed to work. Fast forward about a year or so. Several of them failed outright. I was using two of them as return pumps, and both of those failed. I didn't loose anything, but I had to replace a lot of pumps. I have one left, and I use it to move tank water and replacement water around when I'm doing water changes. They were replaced with standard puwerheads, which worked much better.

After that experience, I never plan to get another Rio pump.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
Update:
I have decided to drill the tank for a sump, I found a 20g tank for $10. I also found a decent stand for $30 its an entertainment center and seems to be very sturdy and will hold the weight, hide my sump tank ect. I also went ahead and bought pump, 2 power heads, heater, sand, rock, and salt.
Lighting will be next.

Sent from my Z820 using Tapatalk

Be very careful here. Often such things as an entertainment center are made of particle board, and while they will hold the weight, at least initially, they can not take getting wet. If they get wet the material tends to swell, and weaken, and in time fail. Remember, getting stuff wet is a way of life around and aquarium.
 

Leandre

New Member
I generally agree with your post, but I have to take exception here.

In my opinion, you should never ever use a Rio pump in any critical area of your reef system. I speak from experience. At one time I used several of them on my reef. I had read posts about some people having problems with them, but I figured that it must be something they were doing wrong, after all the ones I had all seemed to work. Fast forward about a year or so. Several of them failed outright. I was using two of them as return pumps, and both of those failed. I didn't loose anything, but I had to replace a lot of pumps. I have one left, and I use it to move tank water and replacement water around when I'm doing water changes. They were replaced with standard puwerheads, which worked much better.

After that experience, I never plan to get another Rio pump.

My Experience has been a 180 on this, granted it was used on a freshwater application. But my rio lasted a few years, hum low for the price i paid.
For me, the Rio pumps are entry level pumps. moves water well and quiet for the price. moving up would the fluval SP range and the Ehiem's but these reach the $100+ range. but honestly. if you're gonna spend that kind of money, id go for the Sicce 3, quiet, reliable, moves a ton of water and has a reasonable footprint. for a 40g you really wont need anything more then this. so you can save yourself the hassle of looking at the higher end pumps.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
My Experience has been a 180 on this, granted it was used on a freshwater application. But my rio lasted a few years, hum low for the price i paid.
For me, the Rio pumps are entry level pumps. moves water well and quiet for the price. moving up would the fluval SP range and the Ehiem's but these reach the $100+ range. but honestly. if you're gonna spend that kind of money, id go for the Sicce 3, quiet, reliable, moves a ton of water and has a reasonable footprint. for a 40g you really wont need anything more then this. so you can save yourself the hassle of looking at the higher end pumps.

Your experience here more or less reflects mine, in that the Rio pump didn't last too long. It's likely your lasted longer because it was being used in FW. A few years is nothing. I expect to get a lot more use out of something I'm buying. Even the AquaClear 70 powerheads that I replaced the Rio's with lasted a lot longer. I only replaced those because I replaced the entire filtration system. I still use the AquaClears for mixing new water. I stand by my original post. Avoid Rio pumps.

Even the other pumps you mention, Fluval, Eheim, and Sicce are in effect, glorified powerheads. This doesn't make them bad, but they are more less in the same class. If your looking for high end pumps today, consider the DC controllable pumps. If you shop around you can find them for about the same price as the ones you mention. Here is one example (offsite) - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SQX5CEW/?tag=reefsanc-20

Some of the other DC pumps like Reef Octopus can run a whole lot more. If you got lots of money, there are the Royal Exclusiv Red Dragon pumps, but they are about 3 to 10 times the price of most of the other pumps.

The advantages of DC pumps are that you can dial in the exact flow you want, consume about half the power, give more flow and are dead silent. In this day and age they are usually a better choice.
 

crystalnjohn

New Member
Update:
Drilling tank was a success! It only took about 30 min. Here are some pics.

We use an old piece of peg board with a 1 inch hole as a guide.
a4083b57df91ac2fe80840b115a402b7.jpg


We used a 1 inch diamond tipped hole saw.
cc92fa2dc5871a835ed6ff14741abc09.jpg


30 minutes later. Success!
8e0373e819196cb939deda4f8064acb0.jpg


Sent from my Z820 using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

DaveK

Well-Known Member
Question about lighting.

Will this dual T5 be enough for my 40g breeder?
http://m.marinedepot.com/products/es08600/coralife-aqualight-dual-t5-lamp-high-output-fixture

I'm only going to go with soft corals like lps. Or should I spring for something with 4 lamps?

Sent from my Z820 using Tapatalk

You could try it with one dual bulb fixture, but it would be very minimal lighting. You'd really get much better results using a four bulb fixture or two dual bulb fixtures.

Using two fixtures gives you a little more flexibility in positioning the lights, but usually costs a bit more.
 
Top