2 dead tangs
- Thread starter josh10
- Start date
Please tell us more about your system. How large is it? How large were the tangs? How long have you had them? What kind of filtration do you have? What are your actual water parameters?
Finding two dead fish would make me think disease or overcrowding right off, but it's not possible to tell without more information.
The link to the picture doesn't seem to work.
Finding two dead fish would make me think disease or overcrowding right off, but it's not possible to tell without more information.
The link to the picture doesn't seem to work.
It's a 6'x2.5'x18" 170 gallon I have around 150lbs of live rock I have 2 clownfish, 1 yellow tang, blonde naso tang, 1 cardinal fish, 1 fire fish, and 4 blue/green chromis. I had the Achilles for around 2.5-3 mounths and the hippo for around 3 weeks. The Achilles was around 4.5" and the hippo was around 1.5". I'm using a reef octopus bh2000 skimmer and a canister filter.
Ph 8.3
Temp 79
Salinity 1.023
Amonnia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 60
Ph 8.3
Temp 79
Salinity 1.023
Amonnia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 60
A few observations.
Putting 4 tangs in a 170 gal tank is asking a lot of a system that size, especially when they grow. Tangs need lots of "running room".
You also had two tangs with similar body shape and coloration with the blonde naso tang and Achilles tang. Also the hippo tang has a similar body shape. Tangs that closely match up like this often do not get along. They may have fought or the larger ones kept the smaller ones hiding.
I can't be 100% sure, but the Achilles tang looks thin. Note the belly and how the lateral line seems to protrude. I'm also not sure if the white spots on it are SW ich, or just dirt. Check your remaining fish out carefully though. Tangs are notorious "ich magnets". The fish also looks beat up, but that could have occurred after it was dead.
Achilles tangs are considered a difficult fish to keep. So this could have been a factor.
From what your telling us, the hippo tang was small. Thses small tangs look real cute, but they are very young fish. It doesn't take much to kill them.
Your filtration system seems to be far too small for a 170 gal tank. The reef octopus bh2000 skimmer is rated for a 110 gal tank, which means the largest tank it should go on is about a 55. I don't know of any canister filters I'd recommend for a 270 gal tank. You don't mention manufacturer and model, but I doubt it's anywhere close to what a tank that size needs. You may want to rethink your entire filtration system.
It is also possible that there is not enough water circulation in the tank. Between the water flow and filtration, you may have created a situation where your were not getting enough gas exchange. This would be the same thing as over stocking the tank. This all depends on what else you have in the system for water circulation.
What I would do here is to clean the skimmer and canister filter, and keep an eye on things for several weeks. Your looking for any disease problems. and making sure what you have left is in good shape. The remaining fish will be stressed.
I would not add additional tangs or related fish species for a long time. If you do add them in the future, try to get ones with a different body shape and coloration compared to the existing tangs. In a few weeks you could consider adding other fish, but avoid the tangs.
Alright well I'm aware of the tank sizes these fish need I'm not looking to get lectured about what size tank they need and how many can put in one tank. There has never been any aggression between any of them they hardly even notice each other. My canister filter is a fluval fx5 I'm not worried about my filtration since my nitrates stay around 20-25 normally. For the wounds on the achilles they look to big to have come from any of my other fish. I'm positive it wasn't from lack of gas exchange I have 2 wp60s and 1 wp40. So my guess is either a parasite or a bacterial infection.
A Fluval fx5 will process about 607 gph. This is a good filter, but too small for you application.
For a 170 gal tank that's a turn over of only about 3 1/2 time an hour. For a SW system this is way too low. Typically you want a turnover of about 10 time per hour through the filtration system. You really need a lot more here.
Your nitrate level of 20 - 25 if ok for a FOWLR system like you have, but lower would be better. To get that down a bit, consider upgrade your skimmer. You have fish like that tangs that are big dirty fish that produce a lot of waste.
Since you have the WP60's and WP40 in the tank, your ok on the water circulation within the tank itself, so I don't think there was a gas exchange problem.
For a 170 gal tank that's a turn over of only about 3 1/2 time an hour. For a SW system this is way too low. Typically you want a turnover of about 10 time per hour through the filtration system. You really need a lot more here.
Your nitrate level of 20 - 25 if ok for a FOWLR system like you have, but lower would be better. To get that down a bit, consider upgrade your skimmer. You have fish like that tangs that are big dirty fish that produce a lot of waste.
Since you have the WP60's and WP40 in the tank, your ok on the water circulation within the tank itself, so I don't think there was a gas exchange problem.
Themonsterisme
New Member
DaveK gave some great advise
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RoDogVillan
New Member
Hippo=ich. Tough fish
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sirrealism
Well-Known Member
Sorry for your loss. DaveK is trying to help and is far from lecturing you. The FX5 is one of the best canister filters made and do a great job in fresh water but its just not enough for salt. Is it your issue? No prob not. Can you get away with using it? Yes but its not a good choice with diffacult fish like tangs.
Of everyone on this site DaveK is one of the most knowledgeable guys here. I have been at this 20 years and if he told me I was doing something wrong I would change it!
Of everyone on this site DaveK is one of the most knowledgeable guys here. I have been at this 20 years and if he told me I was doing something wrong I would change it!
puffermike
Active Member
Filtration advice isn't really what hes giving you. DaveK is giving you advice on the probable causes of their deaths. Your skimmer is too small for that system. In the real world of fish, especially tangs... they will show a lot of aggression and will be very dirty fish. His advice on the size of your skimmer is dead on. It's like trying to tell someone their wound is clean with only patching a piece of gauze over it. Think about the quality of air around you, that you breathe in every day. If I was too be able to dirty the air around you so much that organics broken down and rotting could actively float around you'd think a bit differently about a skimmer. Dirty water, can lead to bacterial infections, which is what you previously suggested. One aggressive fight, when you're not around is all it takes... Just one open wound, with one strand of bacteria entering the wound. We can only observe our fish as much as we watch them and I know that all the aggression doesn't take place when we are around. Fish fight much like any other living species do, randomly.
No ones trying to "lecture" you. We are just giving you our experiences with what we have dealt with. That skimmer is lacking for that tank size. The only way to make up for that nutrient export is with water changes or something like purigen. I'd invest in a bigger skimmer if possible, crystal clear water quality has a lot less issues down the road.
3dees
Member
mostly good stuff, but I disagree on a couple of things. I use a underrated canister on my tank, but only to run some carbon. my live rock is my filtration. second is the skimmer. I think sometimes we kind of go overboard. I don't have a sump on my 120 gal. softie/lps tank. 150 lbs of live rock. I run a Reef Octopus BH 2000 and my water is great. I can't get nitrates even tho I over feed a bit. seeing that there are tanks running skimmerless I think any skimmer would be a help. don't know what killed his fish but I doubt it was the canister or skimmer. of course we could use a bit more info on his tank, especially his maintenance routine.
It's possible to run a tank like you describe, but look at the OP's tank. It is a similar arrangement, but it had 4 tangs in it, with 3 of them being fairly large. You didn't mention your livestock load, but I doubt that you would be running problem free if you had 4 tangs in it.
So if my "lack" of filtration is what killed my fish why were there big wounds on my fish? I'm also not sure why I'm being told my tank couldn't handle the bio load when my ammonia and nitrite have been at zero since I first cycled the tank and my nitrates rarely came above 20ppm.
So far all this "advice" I've been given has been of no help no one has given me any reasonable answers to why my fish died. They didn't die from lack of oxygen or poor water quality, they weren't bullied to death I just want opinions about what might cause a fish to die in 24hrs time and end up with big wounds and pale color.
So far all this "advice" I've been given has been of no help no one has given me any reasonable answers to why my fish died. They didn't die from lack of oxygen or poor water quality, they weren't bullied to death I just want opinions about what might cause a fish to die in 24hrs time and end up with big wounds and pale color.