Help Please

[Debby]

Hi my name is Debby. I have a salt water problem.I have a 58 gallon tank 6 months old. 55 lbs live rock and about 2 inc live sand. I keep loosing cleaner shrimp 4 so far.water tests all great according to fish store. I have a sea apple.rose annem.a brain.a orange leather,turbo snails.a Damsil.tomatoe clown fish. hermit crabs.HAD a angel fish and a small fish that is suppose to eat parasites off fish.this morning foung them dead were fine last nite.I am so lost to what is wrong.I have a corallife super skimmer. two power heads moving water,can any body give me any suggestions.

Debby

 

[naperenterprise]

How are all your water tests comming out?
Do you have any nitrates, ammonia?

Are the shrimp just vanishing? or do you find them dead?

 

[Debby]

had water tested today they said it is great,I find them dead.

 

[Dentoid]

:halloebby, Welcome to the posting side. Talked to you briefly in chat 2 weeks ago. Can you post the results of the following parameters:

ammonia
nitrite
nitrate
alkalinity
salinity
temperature
pH

It really sounds like a chemistry issue. Also, how would you rate the stability of the tanks chemistry, temperature and pH?

Things to consider:

-Sea Apple slowly dying and releasing toxins.
-Damsel picking on other inhabitants.
-Fluctuating chemistry, temperature and/or pH.
-Inadequate acclimatization of the shrimps?

You've come to the right place for help. Hang in there!

 

[AQTCJAK]

Welcome ABoard

 

[framerguy]

First of all, Welcome to RS!! We're glad you found us. Now, can you tell us specifically what your water parameters are. In particular the PH, alkalinity, temp, salinity, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. I was going to blame it on the anemone but you say you find their bodies so that's not it. They are intolerant of quick changes in water parameter such as PH and Salinity. Has anything happened that could cause those to change quickly? such as a large top off addition. The fish wouldn't be as affected by that so it leads me to believe it's a poison such a ammonia or nitrite or something else getting in the water. Are you supplementing anything? How long did you have the shrimp and how do you acclimate them? Inverts need particularly long acclimation of several hours. That still doesn't explain the fish. Are the fish and inverts at the top of the tank as if they are looking for air?

BTW, you really need to get your own test kits and check them yourself. Once you post your water parameter and give more info we can help you better. Again, Welcome, we'll help sort this out.

 

[naperenterprise]

Yeah LFS dont test everything... probably just ammonia and ph...

 

[Debby]

hi. well i got a test kit today if i did it right my ph is 8.8 my amon is between 2 &0.25. nitrate 0 nitrite is 0. hope this helps you all to help me.
Debby

 

[Dentoid]

Any level of ammonia is toxic. That could be one problem. However, it could be a mini cycle from recent dying fish.

The pH is high. The accepted pH is 8.3-8.4. I suspect pH shock of your shrimps when they went from the store water to yours. Assuming the water that the shrimps were in was 8.3-8.4 a very long acclimation would have been needed to adjust any invertebrate to that high of a pH.

Since you have livestock in the tank already, my suggestion would be to do up to a 50% water change(WC) now. Then do smaller WCs, say 10% of the tanks volume weekly until the pH stabilizes at a lower number. Once the chemistry stabilizes you can try adding another cleaner shrimp.

Now that you have a pH test kit, with the next shrimp, test the pH of the water it came in and compare it to the pH in your tank. That way you will know if there is big difference. The bigger the difference the longer the acclimation period should be.

I would also suggest running some carbon with that Sea Apple around. All the best!

 

[Debby]

ok Scott remember Im new to this what and how do I do carbon. And why do u keep bringing up sea apple is it really that bad to have,

Debby

 

[Dentoid]

Get some activated carbon from the LFS and a chemibag. A chemibag is a fine cloth bag with a string tie. Put a cup or so of carbon in the bag, rinse it well with RO/?DI water and put it in a moderate flow area, like your HOB filter or sump.

Yes, Sea Apples are notorious for wiping out entire tanks and are generally reserved for advanced aquarists.

 

[framerguy]

I agree with Scott 100%. Most likely you had ammonia readings which stress the daylights out of fish and kill inverts. Do waterchanges now. I think he was being cautious about the 10% change after a week, it's possible you could go 15 or 20%. Get the readings stabalized before adding any animals to the tank (ph -8.3, ammonia=0, nitrite=0) Fish can handle some nitrate, and inverts also up to about 35ppm. Less than 10 is a good number to shoot for. Be patient! It will get fixed.

Also, seriously consider taking the sea apple back. They are fascinating creatures and stunningly beautiful to be sure but are a ticking time bomb. They will explode (die) and will kill everything.

Also, a Phosban reactor is inexpensive and you can run carbon inside that to get the best contact time. The carbon will work to a degree just lying in the sump but it's best to have it where the water is forced through the carbon for maximum contact.

 

[Paul B]

I'm blaming the sea apple in a 58 gallon tank with ammonia. Bad combination.
Use carbon as was said and get rid of the sea apple.

 

[NATIVEVAMAN]

I agree with what has been said here so far.What I would like to point out is in reagard to well water.A lot of people who have wells may think that an r/o di unit is not needed and nothing could be further from the truth.Wells historicly have high levels of silicates, phosphates and nitrates in the water.Along with parasites and some bacteria that are not removed because there is no chlorine.It is not enough to say"I dont need r/o di because I dont have chlorine in my water".It is needed under all circumstances.

 

[Debby]

Just wanted to say thankyou for all the advise. Asked the pet store if i could trade sea apple or see if they couls sell it for me of course they said no so any way. My tank sure looks empty with only two fish left. my sally lightfoot died last nite.Mayby this just wasnt meant for me............

Debby

 

[rmlevasseur]

OK, next big tip of advice: Dump the LFS. In my opinion any store that sells a beginner a Sea Apple and then refuses to take it back is only out there steal your money. Remember, the worse you do the more they make. To be sure there are some good ones out there, but they are rare.

 

[heels92]

Just wanted to say thankyou for all the advise. Asked the pet store if i could trade sea apple or see if they couls sell it for me of course they said no so any way. My tank sure looks empty with only two fish left. my sally lightfoot died last nite.Mayby this just wasnt meant for me............

Debby

Don't give up...It sounds like you ran too hard initially. You have come this far...why not try to save the lives of the creatures you have. You have learned alot in this experiment...remember

"You haven't failed until you give up."

D

 

[blue_eyes53813]

Im sorry for your troubles Debby and welcome to RS. I would work on getting rid of the sea apple. Ask other pet stores if possible or ask other aquarist in your area. They can be very bad and may very well be the problem. If bothered by the other livestock they may be expelling some liquid (or what ever they do) to pollute the water. I wouldnt add anymore livestock until it is out of the tank. Do you have a seperate tank like a quarantine tank you can put it in? Another option may be to buy a 10 gallon. They can be pretty cheap. Take 10 gallons out of the main tank and put in there and put the squirt in there. Do a 10 gallon water change on the main tank and use that water to put in the 10 gallon. Might be another option so you can stock the main tank again.


Remember to go slow when adding new livestock to the main tank.

Also I dont know if it was mentioned before but check your rock for Hitchhikers like a mantis shrimp or something. Maybe very possible you have a bad hitchhiker killing the other livestock.

Good luck

 

[rlcline76]

I'm surprised most will take back livestock as a small credit. Hopefully you can do business with another LFS.

This is fixable to an extent...a big extent if you do that 50% water change and maybe a couple of small ones as has been suggested. And since you still have livestock, the sooner the better. Keep up with the testing and go very slow with adding anything. Give yourself time to research everything before you toss it in the tank.

 

[framerguy]

Mayby this just wasnt meant for me............

Debby, please don't give up. This can be the most rewarding hobby you will ever have! I 100% agree on ditching the LFS. The fact that they even sold you the animal says that. There are several online sites that are excellent. When you are ready for more critters we'll steer you in the right direction. The 10 gallon quarantine tank is a great idea til you can find a home for the apple. Plus, you'll have a quarantine tank for later. Hang in there, take a deep breath and think how beautiful your tank will be when it matures!