Zeolite and Oyster Shells

[Buucca]

Greetings,
I am starting up my new 156gal tank and have a couple of questions before I go through with it. I have a 40lb sand filter and 1/2 hp pump that I plan on using. I have 40lb of Zeolite. I know Zeolite can't remove ammonia from salt water only freshwater. Can I still use it for filtering purposes on a reef tank or will it have an adverse effect on saltwater?

Secondly, I have a MRC dual chamber calcium reactor and I have an endless supply of oyster shells at my disposal. Would ground up shells work as an acceptable media for calcium?

I would appreciate responses on each of my thoughts,

Thanks, Buucca

 

[Frankie]

Greetings,
I am starting up my new 156gal tank and have a couple of questions before I go through with it. I have a 40lb sand filter and 1/2 hp pump that I plan on using. I have 40lb of Zeolite. I know Zeolite can't remove ammonia from salt water only freshwater. Can I still use it for filtering purposes on a reef tank or will it have an adverse effect on saltwater?

Secondly, I have a MRC dual chamber calcium reactor and I have an endless supply of oyster shells at my disposal. Would ground up shells work as an acceptable media for calcium?

I would appreciate responses on each of my thoughts,

Thanks, Buucca

Welcome to RS BUUCCA!
The use of a sand filter alone will not be enough to sustain a reef system unfortunately.
Zeolites will in fact remove a certain amount of NH3 from seawater just not as significant an amount as freshwater.
Zeolites will remove also all kinds of other stuff from the water and need to be measured out accurately or you could end up changing the chemical make up of your water.
Also, if your not adding back certain elements on a scheduled basis your corals will starve.
There are to many variables to go over and I suggest reading the ZEOvit guide to get a better understanding on how to go about using zeolites. Here is a link: http://www.korallen-zucht.de/files/zeoguide_103_english-1.pdf

 

[Buucca]

Welcome to RS BUUCCA!
The use of a sand filter alone will not be enough to sustain a reef system unfortunately.
Zeolites will in fact remove a certain amount of NH3 from seawater just not as significant an amount as freshwater.
Zeolites will remove also all kinds of other stuff from the water and need to be measured out accurately or you could end up changing the chemical make up of your water.
Also, if your not adding back certain elements on a scheduled basis your corals will starve.
There are to many variables to go over and I suggest reading the ZEOvit guide to get a better understanding on how to go about using zeolites. Here is a link: http://www.korallen-zucht.de/files/zeoguide_103_english-1.pdf

Thanks Frankie, I will take note on the Zeolite in the sand filter. The Mfg. of the filter says to use 40lbs of media. I assume it would be the same.
I'm also switching my 55gal refugium (2yrs old) to the new tank. I have a ETSS Reef Devil deluxe Skimmer, 50gal sump,Calc & Kalk reactors. I still also need info on using oyster shell chunks in the calc reactor.

 

[Boomer]

Can I still use it for filtering purposes on a reef tank or will it have an adverse effect on saltwater?

Yes, they can be used and are used in Zeo systems. They will have about zippo impact on other ions. Zeolites are about useless in seawater as zeo's are ion exchangers. However, they may impact K+. The Zeo in Zeovit stands for Zeolite. Good guy Bacteria love to live on the surface of zeo's, as it makes a nice attachment site and has nothing to do with any real water chemistry, other adding to nitrification and denitrification. Zeo's have been used in this hobby for 2 decades for that very purpose, with such products as X-Nitrate, Nitrate Sponge, etc..

secondly, I have a MRC dual chamber calcium reactor and I have an endless supply of oyster shells at my disposal.

Dissolve some first and check for phosphate but you should be fine and rise it well in FW before you use it or test it. Some oysters have high phosphate. Also, Oysters are not Aragonite but Calcite ( a tad of Aragonite ) and at times are very pure Calcite, CaCO3. It just means that Oysters will have about zero Strontium but will have more Mg++ than Aragonite, which has about zippo Mg++.

 

[Frankie]

Can I still use it for filtering purposes on a reef tank or will it have an adverse effect on saltwater?

Yes, they can be used and are used in Zeo systems. They will have about zippo impact on other ions. Zeolites are about useless in seawater as zeo's are ion exchangers. However, they may impact K+. The Zeo in Zeovit stands for Zeolite. Good guy Bacteria love to live on the surface of zeo's, as it makes a nice attachment site and has nothing to do with any real water chemistry, other adding to nitrification and denitrification. Zeo's have been used in this hobby for 2 decades for that very purpose, with such products as X-Nitrate, Nitrate Sponge, etc..

secondly, I have a MRC dual chamber calcium reactor and I have an endless supply of oyster shells at my disposal.

Dissolve some first and check for phosphate but you should be fine and rise it well in FW before you use it or test it. Some oysters have high phosphate. Also, Oysters are not Aragonite but Calcite ( a tad of Aragonite ) and at times are very pure Calcite, CaCO3. It just means that Oysters will have about zero Strontium but will have more Mg++ than Aragonite, which has about zippo Mg++.

So if the phos test comes back low or undetectable maybe mixing the crushed shells with reactor media (crushed coral) will help dial in Mg++ good or is dolomite a better option?

 

[Buucca]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the response for my two concerns. I like the idea of using half and half on the oyster shells.
My concern is am I adding the 40lbs of zeolite like I'm suppose to when using sand? or will that be too much. I prefer using the whole 40lb bag but I dont want to over do it. Also when reading the Zeovit info it says to change the Zeolite every three weeks, but I assume thats if you don't have the backwash option that I will have, I just want to use the zeolite like a sand function I suppose.

Your input?

Thanks again,

Bill

 

[Frankie]

First you need to figure out if your goal is to replicate a zeo system. If so then I suggest joining zeovit.com for the best advice on that topic. There are many there that know much more then any on this site about that method.
If not and you just want to use them in place of the sand I would vote against it.
It will become a detritus trap and cause nutrient, phos and nitrate issues over time.
Better to use sand in a fluidized way to better scrub the water.
I would not try to use the oyster shell idea until Boomers reply now that you have his interest. You won't get better on the subject from anyone else on the net~

 

[Buucca]

Okay, I'll just put the Zeo on the shelf until I can figure out how to apply it to my swimming pool (lol).
I'll be testing Boomers idea when the CO2 unit arrives.

 

[Boomer]

Frank

So if the phos test comes back low or undetectable maybe mixing the crushed shells with reactor media (crushed coral) will help dial in Mg++ good or is dolomite a better option?

Nah, it really is not going to do much for Mg++. Dolomite is about it.


Oyster on avg
Ca++ = 53.6 %
Mg++ = 0.32 %

So, for 1 kg or 2.2 lds of it as CaO and MgO, then...........

~ 370,00 ppm Ca++

~ 1,900 ppm Mg++


Dolomite, depending on what kind, is from 5 % to 25 % Mg++.. So, for 1 kg or 2.2 lbs

50,000 ppm - 250,000 ppm

And we use 10% by vol for reactor media of Dolomite

So, 5,000 - 25,000 ppm mg++

So, lowest Dolomite min is 5,000 ppm, using 10% by by vol reactor media and oyster is only ~ 2,000 ppm Mg++ for a full 1 kg or 2.2 lbs

 

[Frankie]

Frank

So if the phos test comes back low or undetectable maybe mixing the crushed shells with reactor media (crushed coral) will help dial in Mg++ good or is dolomite a better option?

Nah, it really is not going to do much for Mg++. Dolomite is about it.


Oyster on avg
Ca++ = 53.6 %
Mg++ = 0.32 %

So, for 1 kg or 2.2 lds of it as CaO and MgO, then...........

~ 370,00 ppm Ca++

~ 1,900 ppm Mg++


Dolomite, depending on what kind, is from 5 % to 25 % Mg++.. So, for 1 kg or 2.2 lbs

50,000 ppm - 250,000 ppm

And we use 10% by vol for reactor media of Dolomite

So, 5,000 - 25,000 ppm mg++

So, lowest Dolomite min is 5,000 ppm, using 10% by by vol reactor media and oyster is only ~ 2,000 ppm Mg++ for a full 1 kg or 2.2 lbs

Thanks Boomer, your the man
BTW people, I have two large bags of dolomite if anyone needs some.

 

[Buucca]

Good info Bommer, seems you are the wizard.
So as I understand it, 45% media mix, 45% crushed oyster shell and 10% dolomite by volume should be a good recipe. I would imagine that purchasing dolomie powder would turn to sludge in CO2. This supplier also sells it in pellets. Would that be better? That is if the phosphate test is good. SCRATCH that, I just found out that the pellets contain copper.

Thanks again,

Bill

 

[Frankie]

Good info Bommer, seems you are the wizard.
So as I understand it, 45% media mix, 45% crushed oyster shell and 10% dolomite by volume should be a good recipe. I would imagine that purchasing dolomie powder would turn to sludge in CO2. This supplier also sells it in pellets. Would that be better? That is if the phosphate test is good. SCRATCH that, I just found out that the pellets contain copper.

Thanks again,

Bill

You can get the right dolomite from Estes. They sell it as a substrate for freshwater. Most LFS can order it and it is cheap.
From his post I doubt I would ever use the oyster shells. Better crushed up and turned into your garden for good drainage

 

[Buucca]

Thanks again, I do appreciate the great info.

Bill

 

[Boomer]

Yes Bill that would be an OK mix but no powdered crap or you will a have a mess big time