Your LFS & You. A small business owners point of view.

livebait

Member
I hope I don't step on toes or offend, that's not my intention at all. Just want put in my .02 on advice from the owner/employees at the LFS and why you shouldn't rely on that advice completely. Or my opinion of why you shouldn't anyhow.
Now the owner of my LFS is a decent guy. He has 20+ years exp. in the SW hobby and knows what he's talking about. He's never made an attempt to bs me or sell me anything, even when I was having problems with my lighting. A true friendship has grown in that he and I discussed the hobby while our wives talked wickless candles after supper last Saturday evening, so yeah, I trust him. His employees on the other hand have given me bunk advice on MI, gave me care advice on a coral that nearly killed it and are always trying to up sell me on something or another. I know for a fact that his employees are paid by the hour + commission on everything they sell.
So being a small business owner I can understand the "why they 'lie'" pretty easily.
As we all know it's a real bad economic time. But all excuses aside the big picture is the point of sale, the end dollar you bring into your pocket.
I have vendors come into my shop all the time with the new 'thing' in tackle and I buy quite a bit of what they have to offer. More or less quantity depending on my knowledge of the product. Sometimes what I buy doesn't sell very well for what ever reason. Do I take it off the rack and through it into the sale bin? Eventually I do but then I break even or take a loss and those two lines in the ledger don't put food in my childrens mouths or keep a roof over their head. I'm sure some of you will see me as immoral or dishonest but what I'm about to type is life in business.
Whenever someone comes in my shop wanting to know 'what the fish are biting' do I point them to the top selling tackle in my store? Not ususally. Most times I walk them over to an item that has been hanging on my rack forever and say something like heard the Crappies are bangin the hell out these. Or this new crankbait is like crack to the largemouths out at....
I wrote this because in the past few days it seems I've read post after post in which the writer took the advice of the salesperson at the the fish store.
Research everything you question first. The internet is a great tool and is loaded with research papers written by unbiased ppl not selling you something and conducting an actual scientific experiment or project. Do that first. Then get opinions from the ppl on forums like this great one. We aren't trying to sell you anything and most times it's first hand experience being passed along. Finally ask your LFS your questions but before you decide anything take the time to mull over all the info you have, get rid of the crap and the stuff that does you no good and use what you learn from putting the information from all sources together and then make your decision or take action.
Oh-and if you ever wander into my shop looking for that real hot lure, follow your gut and don't take my advice.:hallo:
 
that is very true about any business anyone and everyone is trained to upsell thats just how it works. It does stink when you get that at a pet shop but it is what it is
 

tnwillia

Well-Known Member
I'll give them two chances then never set foot in their door again, that's just me, it's far to easy to get EVERYTHING I need on-line from places I really trust. my .02 Have fun!
 

Clownfish518

Razorback
PREMIUM
I work at an LFS, and from the other point of view, we would love to stock nothing but the best products, but in many cases people just are not willing to pay the money. We can sell Odyssea and Catalina lights, but could never sell ATI. People think I am nuts to spend the money I did on my ATI fixture. I have had many customers laugh at me for them.

In the end I do almost all of my purchases from an LFS. They may be online, but they are an LFS somewhere. I never go to the Marine Depots of the world.

Its really not as simple as its made out to be.
 

livebait

Member
I work at an LFS, and from the other point of view, we would love to stock nothing but the best products, but in many cases people just are not willing to pay the money. We can sell Odyssea and Catalina lights, but could never sell ATI. People think I am nuts to spend the money I did on my ATI fixture. I have had many customers laugh at me for them.

In the end I do almost all of my purchases from an LFS. They may be online, but they are an LFS somewhere. I never go to the Marine Depots of the world.

Its really not as simple as its made out to be.

D~man I would love to work in the LFS and be around all of this stuff all day long not to mention the employee discounts and first dibs on the good stuff. lol. I should have written this better. In a nut shell all I was saying is that not all LFS ppl are liars and crooks but I can understand those that are. I'm not a crook but I'm not above misleading information to make a sale either. I believe more than most businesses are that way and it's unfortunate. I respect my LFS store owner friend and trust his word. He is a real friend not a guy that knows me by name cuz I frequent his store. He respects the fact that I prefer not to buy livestock from him cuz his suppliers only provide wild caught animals. The fact that I don't buy from him doesn't prevent him from helping me out. I have a pretty good idea that I could trust you as my LFS salesman, you never steered me wrong on my lighting:thumbup:
 

Clownfish518

Razorback
PREMIUM
D~man I would love to work in the LFS and be around all of this stuff all day long not to mention the employee discounts and first dibs on the good stuff. lol. I should have written this better. In a nut shell all I was saying is that not all LFS ppl are liars and crooks but I can understand those that are. I'm not a crook but I'm not above misleading information to make a sale either. I believe more than most businesses are that way and it's unfortunate. I respect my LFS store owner friend and trust his word. He is a real friend not a guy that knows me by name cuz I frequent his store. He respects the fact that I prefer not to buy livestock from him cuz his suppliers only provide wild caught animals. The fact that I don't buy from him doesn't prevent him from helping me out. I have a pretty good idea that I could trust you as my LFS salesman, you never steered me wrong on my lighting:thumbup:

I did not take it at all wrong. I work part time to supplement the hobby, do some tank service work, etc. I have a bad opinion of many LFS myself. I hear LFS get beat up all the time. No worries.

I get commission on what I sell, but as I have a day job I don't ever let that sway me. I try to do right by the tanks. But, in the end, a lot of what we sell is what the consumers want. This forum is not full of average consumers (thank goodness). We sell tons of purple up and chemi clean, stuff I would never recommend.

I give the best advice I can. I am mistaken at times, but never try to mislead.
 
It would be just as naive to walk into an lfs as into any retail store and not expect salespeople to offer to sell you things you don't need. The best way to make your shopping there a good experience is to know what you want or need before you get there. The owners of the lfs here have a lot of useless stuff for sale; I'm polite and take home a brochure (and put it in my recycling bin.) They also have the things I need, and unless it's a big ticket item I can't afford to buy from them, I shop there.

They know there's more than one way to set up and maintain a tank; know how you want to do it before you go in, and how to say "Thank you, but I want this instead." It works.
 

BigAl07

Administrator
RS STAFF
that is very true about any business anyone and everyone is trained to upsell thats just how it works. It does stink when you get that at a pet shop but it is what it is

I'm going to have to argue this point. That may be true in "many" businesses but not all. We don't have the lowest prices (Building Supply) nor do we stock anything and everything. What we DO sell is knowledge, experience and a 64 year promise to be upfront, honest and give you the best service possible.At the end of the day we can say, "We gave it our best and we will sleep well tonight because we were honest even if it wasn't in our best interest." Customer Service and Integrity is the backbone to our company and served us very well for a long time. We could easily "up-sell" you to a product that has higher margins but down the road when that product does not serve you well you'll look back and say, "Well apparently Allen didn't know what he was talking about. I guess I'll make my next purchase some where else!" We're selling our name and reputation on ever single invoice and work hard to sell you Long-term SOLUTIONS to your problems not short term band-aides.

I feel this is a VERY key reason why in our industry and size category we are still alive (and expanding) in an economy that has literally crushed so many of our close "sister" companies. We have sat here and watched a company IDENTICAL to ours be auctioned off on the internet because they made some bad business decisions and didn't have the loyal customer base to pull them through tough times. It was one of the saddest things I've ever seen sitting here watching people's Careers being auctioned off for nearly nothing. :cry1:


I realize there are some "less than moral" companies out there but to lump everyone into "that" group is very disheartening and I'll take offense to that each and every time.

seahorseman86 this is not a personal attack on you in the least since I don't know you any more than you know me. It's a clarification to your words and an expression of my feelings for an industry that I love and has provided very well for me. Retail is not all bad and a VERY important part of every community. In most areas it's the back-bone of your local economy.

As with many things in life Knowledge is power and being "mentally" endowed before making a purchase is the only way to go and the best way to protect your hard earned money.

I need to get off of my
soap_box5.jpg
 

Val

Member
I've owned two businesses, one still in operation (12 years in operation) and own 10% of the family business (39 years in operation) which I worked at for the last 7 years until recently.

I agree with BigAl07. I've been in several LFS's asking q's about setting up a reef. Out of 7 shops I chose one to buy from and another I will use in the future for livestock. Repeat customers are not only your bread and butter they also give word of mouth advertising and you can't buy that kind of advertisment.

The family business is selling class 8 truck parts, chrome and LEDS. My other business is I own a dumptruck which my husband drives and manages. Both businesses have remained in the black and the dumptruck had it's best year ever in 09. I believe it's because we don't bs anyone and we do what we say we'll do for the price quoted is the reason we didn't have to close any doors.

Yes, there are still people who take pride in their work. You just need to find them.
 

lcstorc

Well-Known Member
An informed consumer is the best consumer. Do your own research and you will quickly learn who you can trust and who you cannot.
 

BigAl07

Administrator
RS STAFF
Al, you have the luckiest customers in the aquarium hobby; I mean that! :)

Dianne thank you but I'm not in that industry. I'm in the "Building/Construction" industry... I would LOVE to be in the "aquarium" industry but my "Calling" was for WOOD :) I just "Dabble" in the hobby but have a very strong lover/passion for small business and economics.
 
We only have one LFS in my area and he really hasn't sold me anything that I don't need. What I have tried to do since I have only been in the hobby 1 1/2 years is to learn as much as I can thru the several forums that I am in. I then go to the store and try and get him to order the things that I need to reach my SW goals with my tank. Could I save a few $$$$ by ordering the things that I need online and bypass the LFS, yes I could, but I want him to stay in bussiness and to be there for me when I need his advice when things aren't going so good with the tank. I am working my way to a new SW tank that will be an SPS tank and I am ordering all of the equipment for the new tank and the new tank will be the last thing ordered. I have had him order a few things for me from BRS at this point, he gets a dealer disscount and then he marks the things up a tad when they come in, I pay a bit more for the items, but not that much and he stays in bussiness. You can only be sold something that you don't need if you are not an informed hobbist learning all you can about our hobby. My 2 cents worth.
 
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