Would you turn OFF your skimmer

[Basile]

I'm doing an experiment; I'm stopping my skimmer 12 hour per day, to see if my sponges 13 of them will pick up the slack. What do you think.

I'm trying to determine the best time slot for it.

First the context; Its a hight nutrient tank, because of its inhabitant;

Its LPS dominated
85 corals +

12- gorgonians
4 NPS
13 sponges ( they pump 50 gallons an hour altogether)


Then i have a huge display refugium for which i have to dose suppliments for the macro's to live. The system need a fair amount of nitrates and phosphate for the macro's to survive or they die, i did loose my first batch of macro becaues my skimmer really too efficient cleaned the water so well nothing was left to create nitrates lol. My skimmer is rated for a 300G and i have a 150 G reef and a 75 G display refugium for a 230 G system with 65G sump that's with all the water and rocks taken into account.



$195 worth of macroalgaes gone. So maintaning a 0.5ppm nitrates is perfec for the size fuge i have 75 Gallons display refugium for my 150 gallons reef tank. And the phosphate at 0.47 ppm as well if not i loose my red algaes. I have 37 different species, in there this is not a chaeto caulerpa fuge, its a display and pleasant fuge with good specimen.

So why do i want to shut down. i've noticed my sponges have started to starve. i red a few good article on their feedings and bacterias is their primaty sources, phyto the second. Since they pump 24liters or 5 gallons per day per square cm that a lot of water, i've calculated with the sponge matter that i have that my system is being pumped at a rate of 50 gallons /hour so not enough nutrients are going throught them. I dose every day mind you but if simply turning my skimmer 12 hours can help these guys survive. And i must tell you my water in the morning is cristal clear. because no feeding all night and filtration is done so many times during the night and by them and the skimmer.

So this is my thinking, if i can reduce the mechanical filtration for the sponge to take over they may survive better, but what would be the best time is my next question. My first reflex would be day time since i feed and dose during the day.

So Off daytime ?
ON night time?

Please vote and leave me a comment about what you think about the whole thing thanks for your time.

Their' a few vis about people who run tanks without skimmers but i'm not there yet....



[video=youtube;BW05vMziy2o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW05vMziy2o&list=PLk_Pw-jAYdFcprRYjkQ_x265XyqcEtnHs&index=2[/video]





Some of my sponges;

I write big for my iphone friends

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[mikecc]

If you going to do thT (TURN OFF YOUR SKIMMER FOR 12 HRS) YOU MIGHT AS WELL RIG UP AN AUTOMATIC SKIMMER NECK CLEANING SYSTEM.

 

[Oxylebius]

I wouldn't turn off my skimmer. I do shut off my pumps during feeding and then slowly turn them back on over the course of a half hour.

In your situation, I would turn off the skimmer for the length of time after you add food to the water. That way your sponges aren't competing with the skimmer for food. So, if you feed in the evenings, then cut the skimmer for the length of time after that.

 

[Mike Johnson]

My skimmer gets shut off during feeding for 30 minutes. I've learned through experience that a skimmer is a valuable asset and my tank's health will decline rapidly when not in use.

 

[DaveK]

Turning off the skimmer is a question that has no hard, fast answers, especially in a system like Basile's.

Unlike most other systems you have a display tank with a refugium containing a host of different species and algaes in a large refugium. This is a lot different from most reef systems, where the livestock is at best a few species, and much smaller. Also, consider the species of corals being kept. Some seem to prefer nutrient rich water.

Because of this, it really makes the poll of little value. Your comparing very different systems, so what may be perfectly valid for one system could court disaster in another.

I think what your going to have to do is to try running the system, as proposed, running the skimmer only 12 hours per day. The observe the livestock, and see if it's doing better or worse. Then readjust the time the skimmer is being used and the time period it's being used and try again. Of course, you also test the water and make sure the parameters are all good. Still, the most important test here is how well is the livestock doing.

I'd be inclined to start by running the skimmer about 8 hours before the lights go out until 4 hours after the lights go out. This way the system will be skimmin when the fish are most active and creating the most waste products.

 

[Basile]

Turning off the skimmer is a question that has no hard, fast answers, especially in a system like Basile's.

Unlike most other systems you have a display tank with a refugium containing a host of different species and algaes in a large refugium. This is a lot different from most reef systems, where the livestock is at best a few species, and much smaller. Also, consider the species of corals being kept. Some seem to prefer nutrient rich water.

Because of this, it really makes the poll of little value. Your comparing very different systems, so what may be perfectly valid for one system could court disaster in another.

I think what your going to have to do is to try running the system, as proposed, running the skimmer only 12 hours per day. The observe the livestock, and see if it's doing better or worse. Then readjust the time the skimmer is being used and the time period it's being used and try again. Of course, you also test the water and make sure the parameters are all good. Still, the most important test here is how well is the livestock doing.

I'd be inclined to start by running the skimmer about 8 hours before the lights go out until 4 hours after the lights go out. This way the system will be skimmin when the fish are most active and creating the most waste products.

For sure the next day parameters specially PH and ORP will be interesting to see. And i'll start one day and examin all the parameters before continuing on those course. I don't want to crash the system. This is a direction i'm going but , i'm doing one step at a time. looking at all the species in play, and effects as well. This week is will be 6 h , then i'll augment , the target is 12 hours. Now am i going to reach it. I've stoped it for 6 h already. The skimmer is back on . i'm doing my test. then i'll retest in the morning, see if any improvements or not. If not the system has degraded and the experiment failed. If improved. Its safe, to continue.

Its the reason i want to extend my macro algaes to my main reef tank, make it a mixed reef to grow macro's for the herbivores. I've added more ceramic rocks in my sump(33 % more porous than any rock) for bacteria growth.

Thanks for the time frame its a good idea .

 

[DaveK]

While it's good to monitor parameters, the best parameter to monitor is the health of the livestock. That will tell you more, faster, than any of the usual tests you could run. This is going to tank a little time. You have to give the livestock time to show the effects of any changes made.

For example, lets say you turn off skimming. It will take a few days for anything to build up, and if your biological filtration is working well, you may not see an efect for weeks.

I don't think you need worry about crashing the system. It would take some time for the lack of a skimmer to cause that sort of damage. Keep in mind that a skimmer will usually turn over all the system's water a few times per hour.

I don't think macro algae in the display tank will make much difference. Tangs and such will eat it if they like it, otherwise, it can grow out of control.

Adding more ceramic rocks in the sump is something I wouldn't do, since they tend to become dirt traps there. In any case, I would only change one factor at a time. Other wise you don't know which factors are helping or hurting. Don't fall into the trap of thinking more surface area is going to solve all. It will, to a point, but once you reack that point, adding more has little benefit.

As a historical note, when trickle filters were new and all the rage, many people debated about various bio-media and which one was best, based upon the surface area of the media. Today, we more or less bypass this question completely, because we have found much better ways of doing things. You can no longer easily find some of the bio-media that was in widespread use not too many years ago.

 

[Basile]

While it's good to monitor parameters, the best parameter to monitor is the health of the livestock. That will tell you more, faster, than any of the usual tests you could run. This is going to tank a little time. You have to give the livestock time to show the effects of any changes made.

For example, lets say you turn off skimming. It will take a few days for anything to build up, and if your biological filtration is working well, you may not see an efect for weeks.

I don't think you need worry about crashing the system. It would take some time for the lack of a skimmer to cause that sort of damage. Keep in mind that a skimmer will usually turn over all the system's water a few times per hour.

I don't think macro algae in the display tank will make much difference. Tangs and such will eat it if they like it, otherwise, it can grow out of control.

Adding more ceramic rocks in the sump is something I wouldn't do, since they tend to become dirt traps there. In any case, I would only change one factor at a time. Other wise you don't know which factors are helping or hurting. Don't fall into the trap of thinking more surface area is going to solve all. It will, to a point, but once you reack that point, adding more has little benefit.

As a historical note, when trickle filters were new and all the rage, many people debated about various bio-media and which one was best, based upon the surface area of the media. Today, we more or less bypass this question completely, because we have found much better ways of doing things. You can no longer easily find some of the bio-media that was in widespread use not too many years ago.

You make very good points, ok i'll take out the extra ceramic pieces. and chage one thing at a time. The algaes are eaten so no wories about being over ran by it. Its actually the opposit. I'm actualy hoping that some takes hold for them to have a selection of it so if i'm not there(vacation ) they have something to munch on, and the added nitrated export. I've program my apex for a 4 h stop each day 10pm to 02;00 am and see in the next few week what are the changes. It may just be enough and no more might be necessary to keep the balance.

So many of my bioload rely on heavy nutrience and particule, extra dosing the tank is i find not only costly but wastefull with a overpowering skimmer. i have him on dry skimmate and he draws a lot still. I think i was over taken by the results of the skimmless tanks i saw, thanks for your good advices, put things in perspective.

 

[desertranger]

What are you doing to keep nitrates up. I lost some soft corals, to what I believe was too clean of water. I had a huge colony of zoas, then over some time they have all died way and when I test my water nitrates always read zero. I have upped the feeding cycle and dosed some photo-plankton but nothing has helped.

 

[DaveK]

If you really feel the need to add nitrates or phosphates, you can obtain them, and a host of other ferts from aquariumfertilizer.com. See them here (offsite) - http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/

Note that almost all the information there is geared toward planted aquariums, and will not apply to a SW reef system. Most of what they sell is dry fertilizers, and a very little goes a long way, even in a FW planted tank. Go very carefully here to avoid turning your reef into a "giant algae farm".

 

[Basile]

What are you doing to keep nitrates up. I lost some soft corals, to what I believe was too clean of water. I had a huge colony of zoas, then over some time they have all died way and when I test my water nitrates always read zero. I have upped the feeding cycle and dosed some photo-plankton but nothing has helped.

It depends on your bioload,(fish, and corals) not only its number, but the species, for example Tang produces a lot of waste, its like a water cow if you like, lots of undegested organic matter. They eat a lot but don't process it all the way and expulse lots of half digested material so they have to eat a lot, and expulse a lot, not very efficient eaters or economic. On the other hand other feeders are very conservative an give less waste , some eat more , give less waste, so your species is one factor.

The other is your feeding habits, type of foods,and methods of feeding. I feed twice a day, 2-3 kinds of food each time. Now my system is geared up for a high nutrience and its by design that it done that way. I've custom built the reef tank , refugium and sump , and other aspects of the system to function in that direction. I had an objective , goals, and knew what i needed. So some of my suggestions may be good , some risky to do in an ordinary system not built for that. Just warning you about that.

So when i feed, i stop all pumps and return i don't want my EXPENSIVE food to go into the sump and sock, in my coast to coast overflows, i want them to stay in my tank, for the critters to eat, from the fish to the worms. So the firs pieces floats and i leave them be, so the smaller fish gets it and i stay away to let them feed in peace. when the piece starts to fall i take it and spread it and start the pump to make it swirl around and not settle on the bottom. when all the food has gone from the water column i start the return. I usually dose when all this is happening 30 min like so all the supplements gets to the gorgonians, sponges, polyps, and not in my skimmer tha i stop for at least an hour after feeding.

Some people are obcessed too much with zero nitrated they don't feed enough and then they have ich , lots of people just go nuts when i feed . All that, they say , yes, all that, ever saw fishes when diving or have you ever dove in the tropic, they're huge and fat. Fishes insome tanks are just skeletons so they get ich too weak to fend it OFF they die.

mine are fat,

Fat and healthy. feed a lot have a good cleaning crew feed the cleaning crew they wont die so often either and clean better, the notion that to have a good clean up crew is to starve them is totally ridiculus, mine are so fat and big all my snails have grown and doubled in size and reproduced i don't know how many time. don't have to buy any , and my brittle star have also multiplied. So feed you tank and your critters.​