Turn Over

Cougra

Well-Known Member
Before you start getting all nit-picky on the exact number of times the water in the tank gets “turned over” I think it’s more important to understand WHY you need turnover to begin with!

Reasons for HIGH turnover:
One of the most obvious and important reasons for having good water movement in a tank is for gas exchange. Due to the nature of saltwater and the temperature we keep them at it is hard to keep the oxygen levels high for the animals. A build up of CO2 in the system has an extra disadvantage of driving the pH down in the tank and eventually exhausting the alkalinity.

With the large amount of rock generally found in a SW tank, you are faced the problem of debris getting caught up in all the small places in and around the rocks. To prevent this from happening it's important to provide a lot of random water movement in the tank. Ideally, this random water movement will carry the debris away from the rocks and towards an area in the tank where it can be easily removed through vacuuming or using a mechanical filter before the water is further processed.

A lot of harder to keep LPS and SPS coral (and thus reef fish) are found in areas were there is a lot of turbulent water flow coming at them from all directions. Corals have come to rely on this turbulent water movement for a food source and to slough extra slime, decay and debris from their tissue. Without this valuable service then animals will not be able to photosynthesize, grow and can even suffocate in it's own slime coat.

Reasons for LOW turnover:
Biological filtration ideally needs the water to stay in one place long enough for the bacteria to be able to utilize the ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, phosphate, etc.


So having said that then next question is, How much water flow/turn over do you really need? Personally, I don’t get stuck on numbers to determine if I have enough water movement as simply getting X amount of turnovers doesn’t mean that you have what you need for your tank. It’s more important to ensure that you don’t have any dead spots in the tank, that you have good gas exchange and that your corals will get random, not laminar, water flow. You don’t want to have the water going past your biological filtration areas so fast that the bacteria gets swept away in the currents. Likewise you need to have enough flow around corals to ensure the they get food and that extra slime can be removed from them. You need to ensure that there is a bit of a ripple at the surface of the tank to aid in gas exchange.

So my answer to your question what your exact turnover rate is, is I don’t really think it matters provided you have enough movement to accomplish the above reasons of WHY you need the flow! If you can do this with the pumps that you have, then don’t worry about the exact number of times the water is turned over!
 

DrHank

Well-Known Member
Well said Cougra! Take a look at the Hydor Koralia pumps for flow. I've got a pump # 3 on my 110 gallon and am thrilled with it. I'd add one more if I weren't moving to a 210 within the next couple of weeks. By the way, I'm doing pump #4's on it. You get a lot of flow in the tank for not a lot of bucks. Also allows me to use a smaller return pump and slow things down through the sump. Gives me the best of both worlds.
 

BarbMazz

Well-Known Member
May I please awaken this thread? Thank you :)

I'm determined to understand this turnover/flow/water movement thing, and it's not going anywhere yet.

My system will have:
65g display with 130lbs or so of LR, and 160 or so of a DSB
25g fuge with 50lbs or so DSB, macroalgae
sump 100g tub with 50g water, armed with a new cool sump muffler ala framerguy :)

My calculations show I will have appr. 110g of water volume.

Not sure yet what pump I am using.
Using 2 Koralia #3 ph's
ASM G2 skimmer

I am planning on keeping clams, SPS, LPS, and whatever else can take the conditions that those things require. Theme of tank will be shallow reef clam tank.

Am I correct in saying that clams and SPS in general like clean water and high-flow water?

How the heck do I determine what turnover would be good for these animals and the health of the tank?
 

tbittner

Well-Known Member
I'll tag along too! I'm going to guess that 30x turnover rate per hour is the right number for SPS. Not sure about clams. I don't know if they like that much flow or not.

So that's only 3300 gph turnover. Aren't the Koralia #3's rated at 800 gph? That's 1600, so you would need another 1700 gph through the sump/fuge.

Man, that just doesn't sound right for a 65g tank. :lol:

Ok, I'm tagging along. :)
 

BarbMazz

Well-Known Member
I'll tag along too! I'm going to guess that 30x turnover rate per hour is the right number for SPS. Not sure about clams. I don't know if they like that much flow or not.

So that's only 3300 gph turnover. Aren't the Koralia #3's rated at 800 gph? That's 1600, so you would need another 1700 gph through the sump/fuge.

Man, that just doesn't sound right for a 65g tank. :lol:

Ok, I'm tagging along. :)

Nice to see ya Terry :) :)

So that seems like a lot of gph's for a 65?? Maybe I'll be able to surf in there!
 

BarbMazz

Well-Known Member
Another important element to add; the overflow kit on my display is rated at 600gph. It's an AGA megaflow kit.
 

tbittner

Well-Known Member
Everything I've read is to base it on just the tank volume. It's also advisable to not have the entire flow flowing through the sump/fuge. Based on that I'm guessing you would shoot for around 1900-2000 gph. You'll probaby end up with about 500 gph flowing through the sump/fuge. In order to get 600 gph through an overflow, the 1" pipe would need to be 100% full, all of the time. That will generate quite a bit of noise so you'll probably end up slowing it down to make the noise acceptable. Especially since you have a stoopid tv sitting next to it. :lol:

So that leaves 1500 gph to be produced with powerheads. The two koralias should produce right at about that. The only thing is, with just two PH's, you might end up with dead spots and dead spots are a great place for algae blooms to occur and take off.

I'm guessing here and I don't think I'd do anything about it right now until you get everything up, filled, and flowing, but you'll probably need one or two smaller koralias to get flow into those dead spots. You just won't know until you finish with your rock stacking exersize. :)
 

BarbMazz

Well-Known Member
Everything I've read is to base it on just the tank volume. It's also advisable to not have the entire flow flowing through the sump/fuge. Based on that I'm guessing you would shoot for around 1900-2000 gph. You'll probaby end up with about 500 gph flowing through the sump/fuge. In order to get 600 gph through an overflow, the 1" pipe would need to be 100% full, all of the time. That will generate quite a bit of noise so you'll probably end up slowing it down to make the noise acceptable. Especially since you have a stoopid tv sitting next to it. :lol:

So that leaves 1500 gph to be produced with powerheads. The two koralias should produce right at about that. The only thing is, with just two PH's, you might end up with dead spots and dead spots are a great place for algae blooms to occur and take off.

I'm guessing here and I don't think I'd do anything about it right now until you get everything up, filled, and flowing, but you'll probably need one or two smaller koralias to get flow into those dead spots. You just won't know until you finish with your rock stacking exersize. :)

When you say tank volume, do you mean total water volume in the system, or just the display tank?

I came up with that 500gph for the fuge, too, so maybe I AM understanding this a bit more than I thought.

Heck, I don't wanna hear that tv... I'll blast that overflow at full power all the time! Not really. lol

Thanks for the input about the output :lol:
 
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