Treating Moorish Idol for Fungal and Bacterial Infections

Funlad3

Has been struck by the ban stick
Hello yet again RS! I keep hoping to not have to ever post here again, but that doesn't ever seem to happen, now does it...

Anyways, I'm finally bringing my QT out of hypo. In fact, it should finally get back into the 1.02_s over night; I've been dripping super-saline water in for the past 6 or 7 days. Before continuing, it's important to mention that I made the mistake of treating two fish together. I, of course, found out the hard way what could happen. I had a Moorish Idol in the same tank as a Coral Beauty angel. Both broke out with ich a few days into treatment, and the angel with some sort of body fungus shortly after that. I decided to treat the ich with hyposalinity before worrying about the fungus, as ich is the faster killer. I successfully treated the ich and kept the QT in hypo for another four weeks, as instructed per Lee's sticky. The night before I was going to start raising the salinity, the angel was on the way out.

It still had a patch of body fungus (positive it wasn't velvet) on it's "shoulder", it hadn't been eating for the previous six days, was horribly bloated in the front two thirds of the fish, skinny in the rear third of the fish, and had been having difficulty swimming upright and maintaining neutral buoyancy for the past three days. Needless to say, it was one sick fish.

Now, with the water in the QT almost back to a normal salinity, I'll soon be able to treat the Moorish Idol for whatever the Angel had. Seeing as it definitely had a fungal issue, I was planning on either methlyne blue (as a full tank treatment) or Maracyn for Saltwater fishes. The Idol has also been having a slightly hard time maintaining neutral buoyancy, although it's not even fractionally as bad as the Coral Beauty was. It merely starts to slowly float upwards, perfectly upright, if it stops swimming forwards. I assume that this is a result of internal bacterial infection, long term hyposalinity (relatively doubtful), or internal parasites.

Currently, the Idol doesn't have any visible fungus outside of it's streamer, and only then trace amounts towards the tip of it. It has been feeding extremely well on frozen mysis, frozen squid, and frozen clam. Before the tank went into hyposalinity, the Idol had also been able to graze on some live sponge I had procured, but I had to dispose of it when hypo started. I'm beginning to wonder if that too, as well as it's refusal of any vegetable matter, plays a role in the buoyancy issue.

Anyways, I'm curious what course of action I should take. If possible, I'd like to treat for fungal and bacterial infections at the same time, and I was under the impression that Maracyn would do that. Unfortunately, I was only able to find the API brand, E.M. Erythromycin. For whatever reason, the company says that its product will only treat mouth fungus, versus a full body fungus. Regardless, I can't afford to use a full cycle of "E.M. Erythromycin", as to treat a QT tank of my size, it would cost me over $40.

Instead, I'm leaning towards, if even possible, the use of Methylene Blue to treat the entire tank. I understand that Methylene Blue is usually used as a short term dip, but I'm uncomfortable administering a dip, unless it could be done in water directly from the QT. Unfortunately, I have no idea how I would even go about using MB, even as a dip, so any advice catering to that would be helpful and appreciated as well.

In conclusion, I'd like to know the following:

1. What possible ailments could the surviving Moorish Idol have?
2. What could successfully treat said ailments with the least amount of stress to the fish?
3. What can I be doing to give the Idol a better diet? Yes, I've read Lee's nutrition sticky. :)
4. Could Maracyn theoretically treat the Moorish Idol successfully?
5. Can Methylene Blue be used to treat a whole tank in the long term instead of as a bath?
6. How would one administer Methylene Blue as a bath, or a dip?


Thanks to whoever manages to get through reading all of this! I really do appreciate any and all help that you can provide.

I'll update this thread with water tests tomorrow once I've finished dripping in my super-saline ex-RO/DI and the tank has once again stabilized.


Again, thank you! :D

- Ben
 

lethal

Has been struck by the ban stick
Geesh Ben you're having some bad luck. Sorry I can't offer any constructive advice as i've never had to deal with this before but you're in good hands with the people here.
 

Funlad3

Has been struck by the ban stick
He's happy as can be, but there's no way he gets into my DT until his bill of health is CLEAN!!!
 

BLADEYAMAHA

Well-Known Member
You better learn the difference in the gas pedal and the brake. Geez Ben. Hope you figure the Moorish Idol's problem out.
 

dmatt88

Has been struck by the ban stick
Lots of words.

Ya got ur hands full buddy. Good luck.

..........the mayor has spoken
 

Jetbkk

Member
Just out of curiosity, does your Moorish Idol leave your corals alone? Mine went seriously rogue and munched on my Open Brains, causing me a lot of grief!! I was so happy to get it out of the tank. People say they are difficult fish to keep alive but mine was eating like crazy and thriving (and he also killed the other Moorish Idol I bought at the same time).

Good luck solving the bacterial infection. Treatments are a major pain but I have to say since I'm going through a similar thing myself that I have learned more now than I have in a long time because in a QT situation you are forced to pay so much more attention to everything..
 

Funlad3

Has been struck by the ban stick
Mine has never been out of my QT, but I'm hoping it stays away from my coral...


So it occurred to me that my air pump had stopped working on the QT, so there was barely any gas exchange going on. Needless to say, that's fixed, and now the Idol is a lot happier, although it is swimming facing slightly downwards and ever so slightly positively buoyant. Anyone?
 

sk8rdn

Has been struck by the ban stick
Mine has never been out of my QT, but I'm hoping it stays away from my coral...


So it occurred to me that my air pump had stopped working on the QT, so there was barely any gas exchange going on. Needless to say, that's fixed, and now the Idol is a lot happier, although it is swimming facing slightly downwards and ever so slightly positively buoyant. Anyone?

He has to fart... Just leave the room so he feels free to let 'er rip... Then he'll be neutral again. :D

...Moving On, Moving On...
 

Funlad3

Has been struck by the ban stick
:lol: I just thought of that one episode of scrubs with the interns on the midnight shift with a full moon. :D
 

Blue Space

Well-Known Member
Hey Ben - Sounds like you need A LOT of info asap... If I could, I'd like to recommend the following book that has become an invaluable resource for me. It's called "The Marine Fish Health & Feeding Handbook by Bob Goemans & Lance Ichinotsubo.
20120821_232610.jpg


It covers everything you need to know. For now I can answer questions number 5 & 6:

5. "Can Methylene Blue be used to treat a whole tank in the long term instead of as a bath?" Yes. It can be used to ease fish stress for animals with damaged gills because it's an oxygen carrier. It acts as an oxygen donor and can be absorbed directly through the skin, decreasing fish hypoxemia. Used as a fungicide, it can be added to the tank (in an area of good flow) at a rate of 2 drops per gallon. The process can be repeated, if necessary, when the blue color dissipates. Note: Methylene Blue is known to be toxic to nitrifying bacteria and can destroy biological filters. It can be removed from the water by using a carbon filter.

6. "How would one administer Methylene Blue as a bath, or a dip?" I know that you already read Lee's sticky on nutrition -Now read his post on Methylene Blue dips. Best of luck!
 

Funlad3

Has been struck by the ban stick
Cool, thank you! I was hoping that methylene blue can be used in a salt water dip, but oh well. Now I just need to find a cheap bacterial treatment to use before methylene blue; the $40 cost to use the API medication will NOT work for me...
 

leebca

Well-Known Member

Fungal infections are tricky and even more tricky to diagnose. First you have to be sure it's not a viral infection, which do in some cases have similar appearances. Next, there are such things as a true fungal infection and a fake fungal infection. You can cure the fake one. The real one poses so much problems and is so contagious that euthanizing the fish is usually the best course, in my opinion. Regarding your questions:

1. What possible ailments could the surviving Moorish Idol have? Fungal, fake fungal, viral, + Unknown
2. What could successfully treat said ailments with the least amount of stress to the fish? Prayer. -- On a more serious note -- you have to start with the right diagnosis
3. What can I be doing to give the Idol a better diet? Yes, I've read Lee's nutrition sticky. List what it is eating now and I'll critique it
4. Could Maracyn theoretically treat the Moorish Idol successfully? Not for any of the listed possibles
5. Can Methylene Blue be used to treat a whole tank in the long term instead of as a bath? Has been done in the past with various success levels. Usually not reliable.
6. How would one administer Methylene Blue as a bath, or a dip? Add MB in the recommended quantity to the water.

 
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