The Xel Ocean! 210G Journey
- Thread starter xelnaga15
- Start date
xelnaga15
Member
Thank you sooo much for your input guys!
after about 4 hours of trying to fit this sump into my stand
then i spent a good hour with a hair drier, a paperclip, rubberband, pocket lint, and ....lets just say that the Mcguiver shrink ray did not work....
I WAS SOOO READY TO PULL MY HAIR PUT LAST NIGHT!
So about the stand ... Im thinking... these beams ARE ROCK SOLID in this stand and im not 100% confident that IF I some how remove one of these beams that I can get it back in place with 50% of the stability it has now.so im thinking that the best route would be to take the tank off the top (which is empty) and cut a hole just big enough in the top of the stand while still leaving considerable structure to the top wood.
about the pump givin your information (tbittner) so there is no problem having a pump that is doing 1400GPH is ok with 1" bulkheads that are doing 1200GPH????
after about 4 hours of trying to fit this sump into my stand
then i spent a good hour with a hair drier, a paperclip, rubberband, pocket lint, and ....lets just say that the Mcguiver shrink ray did not work....
I WAS SOOO READY TO PULL MY HAIR PUT LAST NIGHT!
So about the stand ... Im thinking... these beams ARE ROCK SOLID in this stand and im not 100% confident that IF I some how remove one of these beams that I can get it back in place with 50% of the stability it has now.so im thinking that the best route would be to take the tank off the top (which is empty) and cut a hole just big enough in the top of the stand while still leaving considerable structure to the top wood.
about the pump givin your information (tbittner) so there is no problem having a pump that is doing 1400GPH is ok with 1" bulkheads that are doing 1200GPH????
tbittner
Well-Known Member
Excellent job! I seriously doubt that it will hurt the stands ability to support the tank. It looks like it's sitting on the upright boards and they are supporting the tank.
As for the pump, I would definitely buy a bigger pump and then add the appropriate amount of simulated head pressure via a ball valve. The simulated head pressure will slow the throughput from the pump down to match the drains. Just try to put the ball valve as far away from the output of the pump as you can.
As for the pump, I would definitely buy a bigger pump and then add the appropriate amount of simulated head pressure via a ball valve. The simulated head pressure will slow the throughput from the pump down to match the drains. Just try to put the ball valve as far away from the output of the pump as you can.
xelnaga15
Member
Thanks for the input tbittner. Im going with what you have reccomended and going with a Mag Drive 36 that with 13' of headpressure it still does 1600 GPH. and im going to put 2 ball valves right at each bulk head going into the return.
Or
I can go with 2 Mag drive 9.5 and have 700 GPH per return.
either way its the same price.
tbittner
Well-Known Member
I really think that is the best thing because we always seem to under-estimate the head pressure introduced from the pipe. Elbows add 1-2 feet of head pressure, for instance. If you get a bigger pump, then you can fine tune it downwards with the ball valves. If you don't get one big enough..... Well... You can't turn up the power... 
tbittner
Well-Known Member
When you say 13 feet of head pressure, will it actually be pumping water UP 13 feet? If so, the 9.5's are only rated at 100 gph at 13 feet.
Danner Supreme Mag-Drive Aquarium Water Pump/Powerhead
Danner Supreme Mag-Drive Aquarium Water Pump/Powerhead
xelnaga15
Member
Well If I go to one pump per return then its only 6-7 feet right? or is my orig calc you double each returns height right? because you are splitting the pump output into 2 pipes?
so if i am running 1 pump to 2 returns do i calculate head pressure by...
A
pump to T height + return A height + return b height + added pressure from 90 + added pressure from T = head pressure?
or
just the total height from pump to water level?
tbittner
Well-Known Member
Excellent question and I'm going to guess a little bit here BUT, head pressure is caused by the weight of the water pressing downwards onto the outlet of the pump. With a "T" in the return pipe, the weight of the water is increased because the pipes hold more water. The force of the water coming out of the pump is going to slam into the T and then be diverted in two directions. But the water in the upwards pipes will be pushing back.
Therefore, your first statement is probably correct in that each pump will have 6-7 feet of head pressure where as a single pump would have 13 feet of head pressure. In fact, the single pump would probably have more then 13 feet because of the T.
I can think of several excellent reasons for using two pumps. If one fails, the other is still providing flow through the tank and will give you some time to recover from the failed one. Another reason, you can unplug one, take it out for maintenance, and the other one is keeping flow moving.
Downside, you have two pumps to maintain, they would probably use more electric, they would probably add a bit more heat to the water then a single pump would.
Either solution would work and provide you an awesome system.
Therefore, your first statement is probably correct in that each pump will have 6-7 feet of head pressure where as a single pump would have 13 feet of head pressure. In fact, the single pump would probably have more then 13 feet because of the T.
I can think of several excellent reasons for using two pumps. If one fails, the other is still providing flow through the tank and will give you some time to recover from the failed one. Another reason, you can unplug one, take it out for maintenance, and the other one is keeping flow moving.
Downside, you have two pumps to maintain, they would probably use more electric, they would probably add a bit more heat to the water then a single pump would.
Either solution would work and provide you an awesome system.
xelnaga15
Member
thats exactly what I was thinking when thinking about having 2 pumps. Im glad you agree! So I will go with 2 Mag 9.5 and have a ball valve at each bulkhead.you mentioned heat being an issue... I was thinking of going with the neptune 3 controler.... can fans controled Via the neptune help with too much heat in a tank?
xelnaga15
Member
yeah I was hopeing to not have to spend the $$$$$$$ on a chiller
Wooden Harpoon
Member
Ah man... I have been researching this very question for months!!! I found that there are just too many ways of doing it effectively and that you just have to decide on one that will work for you and what you want to do with your tank. One of the main factors to consider when designing your sump with fuge is what equipment will I be running.
I have a sump divided into 3 sections.
a.) Drainage section equipped with protein skimmer & heater.
b.) Return section equipped with return pump & phosphate reactor
c.) Refugium section with a layer of miracle mud, rubble, and macro algae.
I have a sump divided into 3 sections.
a.) Drainage section equipped with protein skimmer & heater.
b.) Return section equipped with return pump & phosphate reactor
c.) Refugium section with a layer of miracle mud, rubble, and macro algae.
Wooden Harpoon
Member
Oops! My post was kind of late!
xelnaga15
Member
Now I wouldent say that. Your post has sparked a idea in my head to do a dual sump system now that I am going with 2 pumps.
Use my existing sump as is with the heater and skimmer.
2nd sump with fuge, 2nd equipment area for additions, and then 2nd return pump.
just have a ball valve on my overflows to be able turn off that overflow to that sump.. incase I ever need too... pump failure...
well... wait ... if the pump fails and I am not there then the 2nd sump will overflow..... unless I build fail overs into each sump! so that if one sump begins to overflow it will flow over into the other sump and that pump can pump water out!
tbittner
Well-Known Member
I started to respond and then I read your WHOLE post and I see you already thought of what I was thinking.
I think that one bigger sump would be so much easier and safer. You could use your existing sump as a fuge, just place it a little higher then the new sump. Divert some water from the drain line into the fuge, the rest goes directly to the sump. Then have the fuge overflow into the sump. Two pumps in the sump to pump water back up to the tank. You want the fuge to drain directly into the return compartment though so the skimmer doesn't suck out pods.
Safest, easiet (kind of) way of doing it and it's a very effective method for water movement.
xelnaga15
Member
Update...
Well I know its been a long time since I've had a chance to post some updates. Shortly after my last update I was informed that my facility at work was being sold off to another company and that some employees would be transfered out. Worried I might of been out of a job I put this endeavor on hold. Luckly I was one of the ones to be picked but this but this ment I would have to move. Since then I have moved two times which has basically caused my 29 gal biocube more stress than it could handle and unfortunately ended up being too much for the livestock to handle the last trip. So here I am now with two empty tanks and what appears to be another move some time in the next six months. and its looking to be a coast to coast move. I'm leaning towards just selling off what I have and starting fresh once I know I'm settled in for a while.
I still have the 29 biocube running with just live rock and sand keeping the live rock good. I will probably post up the list of things for sale in the for sale page some time this week. If anyone is interested in either of my tanks or equipment send me a message. I am currently in Myrtle Beach, SC
Well I know its been a long time since I've had a chance to post some updates. Shortly after my last update I was informed that my facility at work was being sold off to another company and that some employees would be transfered out. Worried I might of been out of a job I put this endeavor on hold. Luckly I was one of the ones to be picked but this but this ment I would have to move. Since then I have moved two times which has basically caused my 29 gal biocube more stress than it could handle and unfortunately ended up being too much for the livestock to handle the last trip. So here I am now with two empty tanks and what appears to be another move some time in the next six months. and its looking to be a coast to coast move. I'm leaning towards just selling off what I have and starting fresh once I know I'm settled in for a while.
I still have the 29 biocube running with just live rock and sand keeping the live rock good. I will probably post up the list of things for sale in the for sale page some time this week. If anyone is interested in either of my tanks or equipment send me a message. I am currently in Myrtle Beach, SC