TDS reading?

jks1

Member
Just got a TDS meter. My intent is to be able to tell when I need to change cartridges in my spectrapure RO/DI. Did a quick check- tap water reads 545ppm, output of the RO/DI reads 2ppm. Seems to be doing a fine job after 6 months (cartridges). What do you all consider unacceptable TDS readings out of your units?
 

Montanareefer

Has been struck by the ban stick
Mine is all messed up so will have to calibrate it! It seems I read if it's 5ppm and under your fine and maybe be a little more than that.:)
 

addict

Well-Known Member
Ideally, you want 0ppm coming out of a RO/DI, but 2ppm is nothing to sneeze at... a 545:2 ratio is still a huuuuge reduction in dissolved solids... besides, maybe those 2ppm are calcium ions. :D
I think pretty much anything under 10ppm is alright... above that point and you're probably ready to change your filters.
 

Scooterman

Active Member
I've your reading only 2 PPM after 6 months then I'd say your doing well, I'd imagine regardless your readings, eventually you will want to change the fiber filter & the carbon block, these two are hit first and keeping these clean will extend the life of the others, also they are the cheapest to replace.
 

johnlewis

Member
I change make changes when I get over 10ppm. I first change the carbon, then change the DI unit. I start out around 330pm, and get 0 ppm. I've run for over a year until it was above 10 with my DI unit. I've changed the carbon after about 6 months.
 

NaH2O

Contributing Member
John, how many gallons per day does your unit turn out? I was reading up on RO/DI units, and it seems that the higher the output, the more work for the Deionization resins to do. 2 ppm I believe is acceptable, however, I like mine at zero. Here is some information I had put together...

There are 2 types of reverse osmosis membranes. One is called cellulose triacetate (CTA), and the other is called thin film composite (TFC). CTA membranes don't filter as well as TFC membranes do....CTA rejection rates ~90-95%, while TFC rates at ~95-98%. CTA membranes also break down from bacterial attack, where TFC membranes are impervious to it. One more thing about TFC membranes....they are sensitive to chlorine and it can damage the membrane if there isn't a properly functioning carbon pre-filter. Reverse Osmosis works by the force of water under pressure against the membrane, which will allow the passage of water molecules, but reject most of the larger contaminants. By using reverse osmosis prior to deionization, the resin of DI will last longer then without RO. RO still allows some contaminants through in trace amounts....which the DI will pick up and clean out the rest of the water.

There are 2 types of DI units. One is a mixed bed, which is a single chamber with a mixture of anion and cation resins. The other is a separate bed unit, which contains 2 chambers - one for anion resins and the other for cation resins. DI utilizes a 2-stage process that removes ionic material remaining in water after RO, for example. The resins only last so long before they need to be replaced. What happens is the Cation resin exchanges positively charged ions for H+, and the Anion resin - negatively charged ions for OH-. Cation resins release hydrogen (H+) in exchange for cations, while the Anion resins release hydroxide (OH-) for anions. The hydrogen and hydroxide then combine to form H2O. :eek: - I know, I know....what did she say? lol

Something interesting I came across was that silica seems to be one of the first contaminants to leak past RO/DI. This is because silica is loosely bound to the resins, so when stronger binding materials come in, the silicates will lose their place and start to break free of the exhausting resin.

I found an article about A Study of Silica and RO. I'll touch on a couple of points. Silica is found in 3 forms: reactive, colloidal & suspended particles. The colloidal silica causes problems when it comes to water treatment because of its stability as an un-ionized compound....the difficulty is in removal by means of ion-exchange processes. Silica breakthrough (as mentioned just before) is usually the first to occur, and the use of reverse osmosis prior to deionization aids the process by reducing the silica load on the resins. As a side note, some think silicone dioxide (SiO2) is a challenge due to a similarity of H2O.

Fundamentals of Osmo Systems There is a chart of typical rejection rates towards the bottom of the page. If you look at the cation and anion charts you will see there are several that pass through. These would then be taken care of through the deionization process.

:eek: So, what does all of this mean? Deionization is a way to finalize the process of removing contaminants. Reverse osmosis does a fine job, but for the 1-2% (maybe more in some cases) that get through, it would be worth it to remove the remaining bits. For someone like me who has a TDS reading of 456 (taken just a little bit ago) going into the unit - I'm going to rely heavily on the DI process. Someone with cleaner water would probably make it through the RO process relatively clean, but the deionization would finish off the remaining contaminants.

Hope this didn't contaminate the RO/DI water ;) ? (lol, you know .... I hope this didn't muddy the water? LOL)
 

jks1

Member
Thanks all, I knew youd have the answers :)

Nikki- mine is a 35GPD spectrapure unit. It has the TFC membrane but only a single stage DI. It has always done a great job for me but if you get the cartridges from spectrapure its about $175 to replace them all. I bought the $24 TDS meter so I could wait as long as possible before changing cartridges. The unit has a LED indicator thet is supposed to tell you when to change the stuff but I dont trust it.
 

UnresistibleBlu

New Member
Originally posted by jks1
Thanks all, I knew youd have the answers :)

Nikki- mine is a 35GPD spectrapure unit. It has the TFC membrane but only a single stage DI. It has always done a great job for me but if you get the cartridges from spectrapure its about $175 to replace them all. I bought the $24 TDS meter so I could wait as long as possible before changing cartridges. The unit has a LED indicator thet is supposed to tell you when to change the stuff but I dont trust it.

John - a couple of comments:
I'm not certain, but it looked like in a couple of the posts above that people we implying that the carbon block and sediment filter affect TDS - they don't in any significant way. TDS is reduced first by the RO membrane, and then by the DI resin.

You said your tap water read 545ppm TDS, and after the DI read 2 ppm TDS. I'd recommend you also take a reading of the permeate before it enters ti DI. You should see about a ~95% reduction - should be around 27 ppm. Theen your resin takes it from ~27 down to 2. If you only take readings after the DI, you'll not catch when your membrane is going bad (other than you may notice you are going through DI resin quickly.

$175 to replace your filters? Are you buying gold plated stuff?! You can get name-brand/top-shelf replacements for less than 1/2 that, including a filled refillable mixed DI resin cartridge that facilitates use of bulk resin, and a new Filmtec membrane.

HTH
Blue
 

dwall174

Member
Originally posted by jks1
I bought the $24 TDS meter so I could wait as long as possible before changing cartridges.
Here's a formula to figure out your rejection rate of your membrane!

1. Tap water TDS = (X)
2. RO water (before the DI) TDS = (Y)
3. X - Y = PPM (Parts Per Million)
4. Rejection = (X - Y) ÷ X ] ×100

So In my case my tap water TDS is 125 & my purified water just after the RO membrane housing (before the DI) is 3 TDS.
[125 – 3 = 122]
[122 ÷ 125 = 0.976]
[0.976 ×100 = 97.6 %]
This gives me a rejection rate of 97.6 %
Rejection rates less than 95% may
Indicate that the membrane should be replaced.

Most SpectraPure membranes will have a 98% rejection rate so even with your TDS at 545 you should be getting around 10~12 TDS from the membrane before the DI! And the DI should bring that down to "0" BTW SpectraPure tests their membranes with 500 TDS water so 545 should not be a problem!

FWIW I get all my replacment filters from buckeyefieldsupply I get around 500 gallons out of one of Blues DI Resin refills! Almost twice what I got from the Air Water Ice DI Cartridges. :cool:
 
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jks1

Member
appreciate all the info guys, guess buying cartridges through spectrapure isnt such a good idea.
 

Boomer

Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard
Well, since Nikki took away all my fireworks and websites :D let me add, that increased line pressure increases the rejection rate and recovery rate :D 100-125 psi is ideal for RO. The recovery rate will increase from 4:1 to 2:1 or more.
 
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dwall174

Member
Originally posted by jks1
guess buying cartridges through spectrapure isnt such a good idea.
I would still get the SpectraSelect Membrane when it needs to be replaced. they have the highest rejection rates & last the longest! They do cost a little more but from what I have read they are worth the extra $$$. When I need to replace my Dow Membrane I plan to get a SpectraSelect 60gpd membrane from premiumaquatics As far as your pre-filters, carbon, & DI, I would get them from buckeyefieldsupply
 

dwall174

Member
Just trying to clarify things

Originally posted by Boomer
100-125 psi is ideal for RO. The recovery rate will drop from 4:1 to 2:1 or more.
Your talking about increasing the line pressure to the membrane “After” the pre-filter & carbon housings? Most of the filter housing are only rated at 75PSI so increasing the PSI to 100~125 before could cause problems!

FYI the SpectraPure Technical Support web pages has a lot of good information.

If you try supplying 100~125 PSI to the inlet of those cheap E-Bay RO/DI units you would probably get this. :explode:
 

Hooked

Member
Nikki wrote
There are 2 types of DI units. One is a mixed bed, which is a single chamber with a mixture of anion and cation resins. The other is a separate bed unit, which contains 2 chambers - one for anion resins and the other for cation resins.

Okay, I have two DI chambers, but the cartridges I use are interchangeable--am I only using one kind of resin? :confused:
 

Boomer

Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard
Your talking about increasing the line pressure to the membrane “After” the pre-filter & carbon housings? Most of the filter housing are only rated at 75PSI so increasing the PSI to 100~125 before could cause problems


No, you read into that statement. I was adding to Nikki's post on RO's. There are many types of RO units. The most efficient are those that run at 100-125 psi. Such units use positive displacement pumps, to achieve that kind of line pressure. Spectra Pure also has RO systems the use a line pressure up to 150 psi.

I also don't think Spectra Pure makes RO membranes. Like most, they just buy the membranes and housings and put them together, just like Kent does. They just put their name on them.
 
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