Tank Journal - 135 FOWLR

[Floyd R Turbo]

I've started several threads on this and other forums with questions related to how to turn a customer's tank in a restaurant from an environment in which, IMHO, the fish are barely surviving, into one where they are happy and thriving.

So, I decided to merge these various threads...

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/reef-chemistry-forum/53269-need-raise-ph-how-fast-safe.html
Need to raise pH, how fast is safe? - Reef Central Online Community
Which protein skimmer to go with? - Reef Central Online Community
Need to raise pH, how fast is safe? - Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community

...into one thread for this system, which is a 135 glass with dual overflows and Oceanic 3 sump (30g) so with sump at max operating level it's got about 150g of system volume. It is inhabited by a Dog-faced Puffer, and 3 Sergeant Majors. There was a Yellow Tang but he died - I'll cover that one later.
I started maintenance on this tank on December 13, 2009. On November 29th, I took an initial set of pictures and did a full battery of test. These were the initial test results:

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrates, off the scale on both API and Salifert
pH 7.4-7.6
Alkalinity 3 to 4 dKH
Salinity 32 / SG 10.235

And this is what the tank looked like:

Full Tank shot

Cyano and waste attached to substrate, LR, and decor

And the sump? Gag me...

Salt creep like this all the way around

Left side at the outflow of the overflow inlet - you can't tell, but there are bio-balls in there

Sump, Right side

One of the biggest problems was that the water in the sump was flowing over the high barrier on the right. You can kind of see it in the first sump shot, there is supposed to be a sponge sandwiched between the low and high, and it looked like there was no sponge at all, just a bunch of sludge built up and it was completely blocked. Or at least, that's what it looked like. As I will show you in the next post, looks can be deceiving.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

First stage cleaning, 12/13/2009

I took on the first clean-up step on Sunday December 13th, 2009

The night before, I mixed up a stock solution of Brightwett Alkalin8.3-P and added 3-4 fl oz (to the sump, a little at a time) in an attempt to get the pH and alkalinity up a bit so I wouldn’t shock the system with a large PWC. When I got there on Sunday, the owner informed me that their Yellow Tang died a few hours after I added the stock solution. I told him I was surprised (and still am) that any of his fish were alive!!

Initially, the customer wanted me to clean up the display tank first. I convinced him that we needed to get the sump in proper operation before doing anything to the DT. And it's a darn good thing I said that, because I pulled 5 buckets like this

out of that sump after I shut it down. I also found these in the overflow intake tower

Which did not make me happy, however the bio-balls are probably the only reason he's got any decent level of nitrification. I was also surprised to find out that when I was trying to siphon between the low/high barriers, I found the sponge! However, it looked like this

Which then explained why the water wasn't flowing through it!! When I got all done cleaning up that mess, which took a couple of hours, here's what it looked like all put back together again:

Bio-ball tower

Sponge & Return chamber

Removed as much salt creep as possible

Unfortunately, there was some kind of overflow or something along the line, because the sump is not level, and the base of the stand is warped so the sump actually isn't supported along the ends. Also, the sump is locked in, there's no way to get it out. Solving this problem without a total tear-down is on my to-do list.

After all of that, I used 30 gallons of the 40 I came with, so I only had enough left over to clean up about 1/4 of the DT, I just sucked the waste and cyano off along with the top layer of substrate using a 3/4" ID hose. It went way too fast. So after this first cleaning, here's the DT

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Second stage cleaning - 12/16/2009

The second stage cleaning took place Wednesday, December 16th

I hooked up my old Marineland Magnum canister and shut down the sump.

I took all the rock and decor out one piece at a time and scrubbed it off in 10g of SW pulled from the tank in a 25g Rubbermaid tub. When I got done, it was a nasty purple soup that smelled horrible. Then I siphoned off the remaining gunk and top layer of substrate, siphoned most of the glass and overflows of cyano, filled it back up, used a magfloat on the glass, and let it clear up. Here's how it looked after all that

Also here's a shot of the overflows after cleaning #1, they were so clogged with cyano that the water had to be 1/2"+ higher than it is in this pic just to get water flowing through it. Plus you can see how bad the cyano is on the overflows and the inside of the glass on the left (next to the window)

Total of about 38 gallons changed out. I put in the diatom cartridge and have been letting that run for a few days. It didn't pull much out in the first 8 hours, so I have just let it run for the last 2 days.

The next step will take place tomorrow: cleaning all remaining cyano, vacuum substrate, clean the overflow and U-tubes, clean all filter pads, and a 40 gallon change. Plus I'm going to cut his tank water with fresh SW 25% to 75% to get a handle on his Nitrates, since anything over 80 pretty much looks the same no matter what kit you use.

 

[bwhit1406]

Thats going to be a challenge getting that tank right. Can't believe they let it get that bad.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

One of their employees told me (as I was doing the first cleaning) that he had never seen anyone do any sort of substantial cleaning in the 3 years the tank had been running.

 

[bcarleton]

That has got to be one of the nastiest tanks I have seen in a long time. It was in a restaurant? How could anyone eat while looking at that. Are y'all going to try and do heavy window tinting or blinds since that thing is right next to an open window?

 

[Eric]

Your earning you wages with that setup.

Looking better with every post.

Eric

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

That has got to be one of the nastiest tanks I have seen in a long time. It was in a restaurant? How could anyone eat while looking at that. Are y'all going to try and do heavy window tinting or blinds since that thing is right next to an open window?

LOL! Yeah, it's right in front of you when you walk in the door. Fortunately, most people sit around the corner and don't see it while they're eating. Their other tank...

...is a 225 that used to have about 25 discus until they died off one by one. Water quality is bad here and after a flood, it got worse. My other project for him is turning that tank into a Cichlid tank. That one is in full view.

The window next to the 135 faces ENE so it hardly ever gets direct sunlight since there is a 12' awning in front of the store.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Third stage cleaning - 12/20/2009

My plan for this cleaning was to scrub the rest of the algae off and gravel vac all the substrate. I started with 35g RO water that I mixed and heated up early the day before. After I transported the water, I decided it would be a good idea to go get 20 more gallons, just in case. That turned out to be a very good decision.

While that water was heating and mixing, I thought “hey, why don’t I stick my tube scrubber down the overflow uptake and see how dirty that is?” That turned out to be a very bad decision. Not in the way that it harmed the fish, it just extended my stay for about an hour. As soon as I started, I realized that there was so much gunk in there that there was no flow coming up through the lower slots. I also quickly realized that the sump was getting clogged, thankfully I positioned a piece of poly batting over the baffle before the pump to catch excess debris, but so much came out that it clogged the floss above the bio-ball tower, and water started just pouring off the top, then the batting clogged and the pump started sucking air, right about the time that I got done scrubbing the second uptake.

So I shut down the sump and spent the next 45 minutes cleaning it up. I sucked another 3 buckets of filth water out of it, cleaned all the pads, wiped it out, filled, and fired it back up. I was too busy to stop and take a picture, but after I fired up the sump, this is what the diatom cartridge on the Magnum looked like

It was pretty much clean before that. Scary, huh?

Then, I took a toothbrush and scrubbed all around the edges, and went to town on the tank side of the overflows. This is what it looked like during that

It actually was a lot worse that this pic shows at one point. After that cleaning, the sump again started sucking air and I had to shut it down, clean the pads, suck it dry, fill it up, and fire it up again. I left the Magnum going this time, even though it looked just as bad.

Then I evaluated my water situation. I estimated that I had about 25-30 gallons left. I calculated out the surface area and figured I could take the tank down about 4-1/2 inches, so I started doing a deep siphon with my python on the gravel bed. This is what I was getting out of it

One word comes to mind. Ewwww.

About halfway to my 4-1/2” mark, here’s how it looked

And after I hit the mark and filled it back up, I had made it about ¼ to 1/3 of the way across the bottom. I cleaned the diatom cartridge once again and packed it up for the day. It only took 4 hours.

Notice how nice and clean the overflows are (except for the encrusted parts)

I thought this would be the last leg in the major cleaning series, but bad news – it’s not. The good news is that I only have the rest of the sand bed to go, which should only take another 50 gallon change and it’s all gravel siphoning. Yay!!

So needless to say, I’m tired, back is sore, and until I took a shower, I smelled awful. Time for bed.

 

[burntricer]

thats friggin nuts, i hope your gettin paid exceptionally well

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I couldn’t wait until tomorrow to post this finding. I finally got a read on the Nitrate level in this tank. I took 2 full test tubes from the tank this afternoon.

I determined the Nitrate level by diluting a sample with freshly mixed RO saltwater. I am using the API test, and I do it by the book – 10 drops of #1, cap and turn over several times, shake the bejesus out of bottle #2 for 30+ seconds, 10 drops, shake like crazy for 1 minute, wait 5 for color.

I started with the freshly mixed water for a control. Then I did 100% tank water, just for kicks.

I filled one vial with 5mL tank water, then split it in 2 vials of equal levels, and filled one up the rest of the way with new water, and set it aside. The other, I filled also, and then used that vial to split it again. I continued until I had a 50% tank water sample, a 25%, and a 12.5%. I tested all. Here is the result:

From left to right: Control, 100%, 50%, 25%, 12.5%

It was still hard to get a reading, so I cut it one more time. This pic has 50% down to 6.25%

And here’s the 6.25% (that’s 1/16th strength)

It’s hard to tell from a flash picture, but this reads about 20 ppm or so. Minimum 20 ppm, maybe as high as 30 ppm, but I’m going to go with 20 ppm to account for error.

That means that the Nitrates are at – get this – 320 ppm.

Before the last 30% water change, that would make it 320 / 0.7 = 450.

Before the previous 25% water change, 450 / 0.75 = 600

Before the initial 20% + water change, 600 / 0.80 = 750

SEVEN HUNDRED AND FIFTY PARTS PER MILLION.

Now I’m not taking into consideration how much is still being produced, etc, but exactly how in the H E double toothpicks does a fish survive in that condition?

That is a testament to the durability of marine animals, if I’ve ever seen one.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Got in there today with 50 gallons of water and as it turns out, the exact amount of salt left over from the 200g box I bought to make the SW. How’s that for luck?

I didn’t do any special cleaning (besides Magfloat on the glass), I just started siphoning the gravel. It was so bas in places that chunks of waste came out that were so big, I had to jam the Python intake down into them to break them up. I found one section in front of the base of the overflow that was 6 inches long and an inch wide.

Before I started, I measured the tank dimensions to get surface area and calculated how many inches of water I could remove. By the time I was about ½ way to the line, I was less than ½ done with the area I had left over to do from the last cleaning, and there was no way I was going to cut corners. I ended up leaving roughly the last foot of the gravel alone, filled up the tank, had about 5 gallons left (didn’t remove the area from the overflows from my calculation) and siphoned out what I could, and topped it off.

No pics, had to get home and prep for xmas travel. Winter storm in the Midwest. Driving on I-35 from Des Moines to Minneapolis tomorrow will be an adventure!!!

The next step in this system is to finish off the gravel siphon, service the pump (take apart & clean), replace the return hoses, disassemble the bulkhead connections and clean the U-tube intakes (gunky), clean the overflow hoses…did I leave anything out????

He also had a UV sterilizer on his 225 (which was a discus tank) and I’m thinking that would be good to run in line with the return pump. Does a UV sterilizer need to run at a lower flow rate to work effectively? Should I run it on a Y off the return pump on a lower flow rate to maximize it’s effectiveness?

 

[tnwillia]

Outstanding work on your part... but unless he hires a full time service it will be right back there again. Why does this guy have tanks? If I walked in the door to that tank regardless of how good the food is, I'd turn around and leave. I hope he hires you to do the follow-up, good luck!

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Ingenious, cutting the samples to be tested for more resolution

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I think I've got him hooked, I give him reports and invoices and everything. Plus he wants to add more fish (and keep them alive) and yes, it was a complete eyesore when you walk in. I'm eventually going to add a refugium inside the sump after replacing the bio-balls with a filter sock system, and keep him on a regular water change cycle once the system is 'stabilized'. That would be after replacing the substrate and getting a skimmer on there, etc.

Also, I still have yet to get his 225g started up!

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Fifth Stage Cleaning - 12/28/2009

So, yesterday I did another 50 gallon water change, and finished off the gravel siphoning, which was only about 15% of the remaining gravel. There's still some algae/cyano growing on the overflows and on the LR, and I can still see some gunk in the overflow (below the lower intakes) and I don't really know how I'm going to get that out of there, maybe I'll try to find a longer tube cleaner.

The next step is to replace all the pump hoses and clamps, pull the U-tubes and clean them out, clean the powerhead, and give the sump a good once over again (rinse bio-balls, etc). I also might rotate the bioball tower and install a filter sock on one of the intakes, the sump still gets quite a bit of chunky waste in it.

Anyways, here's how it looks now:

Full tank shot

Left

Middle

Right

Right closeup

Also you'll notice the Koralia 4 powerhead. I just got one because I wasn't sure he wanted to pop for it, even though he needs 2 and it sounded like he understood. He also has the protein skimmer ordered so that should be in by the end of the week.

We also discussed replacing the substrate, since the gravel siphoning just couldn't get all the gunk caught in it. The waste is heavy enough that it won't get sucked up, Python hoses have that shutoff that really slows down the flow rate, no matter what level the other end of the hose is at. So we're going to replace it in sections. The next question is with what?

Obviously there are 3 choices: aragonite sand, aragonite, and crushed coral. I'm thinking that a mix of aragonite (Arag-Alive brand Special Grade Sand) and Florida Crushed Coral would look nice. Or even just the crushed coral. Either way, the pH of the tank won't budge from 7.8, which is why I think mixing the 2 would be good, best of both worlds. Any opinions?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Turning dead rock into live

I have searched through several threads regarding curing live rock, etc, but didn't see an answer to my question. I have 110+ lbs of fiji & florida rock that I bought via craigslist that is dry and dead. I want to turn this into live rock. I understand that since it is dried out, it most likely harbors no organisms, and they would be dead it anything and just need to be rinsed away and soaked to ensure no ammonia spike, etc. What I was hoping to do is turn this into live rock quickly. I read one thread along the way where someone took a piece of fully cured LR and crushed it up with a sledgehammer into sand (essentially) and poured that over the dead rock and let it cure up, and this quickly turned the dead/base rock into LR, organisms and all. Has anyone else done this with success? Is this an acceptable technique, and are there additional steps that need to be taken to ensure the curing takes hold, other than the usual large water changes, heater, powerhead, skimmer, etc?

Also, can this be done in a rubbermaid tub with no light, or would it be better to do this in a tank with a light?

I have an empty 92 corner that I am intending to eventually turn into a SW reef, but I would have to re-arrange my office and move my 55 to make that happen. Most of this rock will go into one of my customer's tanks, which has some established live rock

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Sixth cleaning 1/11/10

I did a big water change on Monday this week. 2 batched of 40 gallons each, I emptied and cleaned the sump, rinsed the bio-balls, then filled the sump up with 15 gallons, pulled 45 out of the tank and filled it with the remaining 25, then pulled about 20 more out while mixing up the other 40 and filled all the way - effectively about 74 gallons, or just under 50%.

I took apart the power head, which wasn’t as dirty as I thought it would be. I replaced the return hoses, which was a darn good thing, because I took off one of the clamps and the hose came off the bulkhead with just a wiggle, and it was dry and hard. It could have been bumped off at any time, so it was good that I took care not to disturb it this whole time!!

I was going to remove the intake bulkhead and clean inside the overflow, but skipped that part for now. The insides of the return pipes are pretty dirty, goo gooped up on the inside, but that’ll have to wait for another day.
I didn’t do any gravel siphoning, but I did notice that the gravel, LR and glass are growing quite a bit of green hair algae.

I ran the Magnum overnight, on a brand new cartridge, and when I got there the next day it was sucked in on itself, so the cleaning job really stirred up a lot of gunk. I had to take a toothbrush all around the edges, and a stiff scrub brush and algae scraper wand to the overflow towers to get the calcified dead algae off of it. It looks a lot better now. No pic, sorry. The job took me 4 hours, and I was exhausted after that.

I tested the water yesterday 1/12 and here are my results:

Temp 80.2 F (Digital)
pH 7.8 t 7.9 (API)
KH 11.5 (Salifert)
Salinity 35 (refractometer)
Ammonia 0 (API)
Nitrite 0 (API)
Phosphate between 2 and 4 hard to tell (Salifert)
Nitrate 80 (API extrapolated)

The Phosphates are interesting to note, because back on 12/29/09, they tested about 2. Now after about 2 weeks of soak time and a 50% water change, they’re higher. This can only be from feeding practices, but he feeds them ¼ of a piece of frozen shrimp a day, so would that cause a phosphate rise?

What interesting about the Nitrates is that 80 now extrapolates to 160 before, which is lower than or equal to what it was after the last water change. It’s possible that some de-nitrification is happening, but then again, it is an API test kit we’re talking about.

I plan on doing another 50% water change to get the nitrates down to 40 and hopefully the phosphates down to below 2, then I will add a phosphate remover to the sump and install the protein skimmer (which should have arrived already, but for some reason has not)

I am also scheduled to get my 150 GPD RO/DI unit TODAY! It’s on the truck, out for delivery. The wait is killing me. NO MORE TRIPS TO WAL-MART!!!

Also, I’m going to soak a bunch of the base rock I have to make sure there’s no dead organisms that would give off ammonia, and put a ton in there. Also need to replace all the bulbs, and scrub the LR again to get the algae off. I’m guessing that the absence of the Yellow Tang is probably not helping, he probably kept the algae under control a little bit.

 

[tnwillia]

I used dry rock (bulk reef supply Eco rock) and 1 10 lb "very good" piece of live rock to start my tank. Yes, all the dry will come to life but it takes longer than using cured/uncured live rock. Also I had no real cycle at all. Good luck

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I thought about curing it in a tank with some purchased LR before putting it in, but it would work the same as putting it in the existing tank with their LR and probably faster, since that's been in there for 3 years...