Snails Dying - Looking for Some Advice

[KMP]

Just wondering if you guys could throw some new ideas my way to figure out what is going on with my tank:

24g Aquapod
Set-up 7 weeks ago
PH - 8.0
Nitrate - 20ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Ammonia - .5ppm
Salinity - Can't recall [I'm at work] but it was w/in acceptable range on hydrometer
Calcium -550ppm
Alk - I don't have a test kit
Additives - Kent Phosphate Sponge, Purigen

Livestock:
3 Damsels [added at 3 weeks]
1 Urchin [added at 3 weeks]
1 Crab [added at 2 weeks]
2 Snails [added last week, have lost 2 from last week]
4 Hermits [added at 1 week]
1 Frogspawn [added last Friday, has yet to open fully]

I've lost:
10 Snails [added at 1 week, 3 week, 5 week]
2 Crabs [added at 4 week]
4 Hermits [added at 1 week]
5 Frags (xenia, starpurst polyp, mushroom) [added at 5 week]
1 Cleaner Shrimp [added at 4 week]

I know I broke the cardinal rule - SLOW DOWN! But I can't fix that now, I need to fix what I currently have going on.

I was adding Purple Up and Calcium over the last few weeks not realizing it was basically one and the same. Since I keep loosing the snails [they are lasting no more than 1-2 weeks in my tank] I did some research on here and concluded perhaps my Calcium was to high. Although, I found the optimum level is 450ppm, I haven't read anything [nor did the test kit menition] adverse affects if you were over that. However, I did the test and determined it was high - 550ppm.

I have stopped adding Calcium and Purple Up. Have not put in anything since Saturday. I did a 2 gallon water change on Sunday and a 5 gallon water change last night. I realize I need to do more tests this evening, but am posting this now in hopes if there is something I should pick up at the LFS that I can do so before going home.

I have also had a diatom outbreak already which is why I added the Phosphate Sponge. That was about 2 weeks ago and now it is all cleared up.

Am I on the right track? Is there anything else I should be doing?

The fish look great and are happy. The urchin and the first crab I added are doing great. Other than those two guys; all other invertebrates appear to not like my tank. I have also been adding algea tablets.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Charlie97L]

what most likely happened is a nitrate spike... that is a HEAVY stocking list for a 24 gallon. you just went too fast, and the bacteria didn't have time to build up and compensate for the new bioload, and had a mini-crash. i'm seeing that you lost all the sensitive inverts. most likely the nitrates spiked higher than 20, and caused some loss. 20 even, is really high for coral and inverts, you should shoot for 0, 5-10 is manageable. i'd just give the tank some time before adding anything else... get those nitrates down with water changes, and you should be ok. i'd wait at least until you've had a month of stable, low nitrates before adding anything else. i have a rule of only adding 1 new livestock piece or group of snails/hermits per week... that's worked well for me. if it's a bigger fish or coral, i wait a few weeks. 20 is really high for inverts... it looks like the larger ones survived... i mean, even with stuff like that, you'll have survivors, so the crab and urchin not dying isn't really odd.

diatom bloom is normal in a new tank, keep on top of the water changes, and it should go away. i'd start testing phosphates too, regularly and use the sponge as needed.

a good rule is also to not dose anything you don't test for. really, in a tank that small, you shouldn't need to dose calcium if you aren't caring for SPS or clams. your water changes should be enough to keep those levels up.

 

[KMP]

Thanks Charile.

I picked up some more water today and will do another 5g water change tomorrow or the next day. I'm also going to take some water by the LFS tomorrow to let them test. If nothing else that will give me a sanity check that my testing is on target.

I agree...nothing else until I sort this out.

 

[lcstorc]

My aquapod came with 2 large sponges in the back overflow area. If you have those in then be sure to take them out and clean well with r/o water frequently. They can get really nasty really quickly and seriously contribute to nitrate spike.
Sorry for your losses, but keeping everything clean and frequent water changed should get you back on track.
Peace
Lynn

 

[KMP]

I know what you mean. Those sponges do get nasty. I've cleaned them at least once a week since it's been set up.

I was also a bit concerned when I fed some Mysis two days ago only to watch half of what I put in the tank circle and get sucked up through the overflow to rest on top of the sponges. That's all I need is for decay to occur within the sponges.

 

[lcstorc]

Great that you are keeping an eye on it. I clean mine every day, but my aquapod is my seahorse tank so more of an issue. I mostly mentioned it because my husband bought and set up the tank as a present and I didn't even know they were there for the first couple of weeks.
Talk about nasty.
Anyway, hope things improve soon, but looks like you are heading in the right direction. Keep an eye on your bio-load. It is real easy to overstock a 24. Remember one inch of afult size fish per 5 gallons of water is the general rule. You may want to trade in the damsels at some point since they alone will probably max you out if you keep them.
Peace
Lynn
BTW I love the crab on top of the urchin. That is just too cool.

 

[KMP]

yep, the damsels are "interim" fish. they'll be moving to a tank 12gDude and i are setting up at work. they're just little guys - about an inch each at this point.

the urchin and the crab are the best thing i have going right now. i'd hate to loose either of those guys. they hooked up within a day of me introducing the urchin and have yet to separate. wherever the urchin goes, the crab is on his back. i have no idea what that crab eats, but he's content.

just curious, how do you have the gates/sponges set up. i have all gates in and pushed to the bottom which leaves about 2 inches open at the top for water to filter in. i just read the other day that the sponges are supposed to be 1 inch below the top of the chamber overflow. that has made a big difference for me. before the crud was clogging up the slots.

 

[lcstorc]

Sounds about like mine except I have the lid removed and a pump and return that swaps water w/my 125. It makes it a lot easier to keep stable w/the two systems sharing water.
The 24 is my seahorse tank so I just need to keep them segregated. Just some snails, a couple of shrim, and of course a few coral that like the lower water flow I have running in the pod for the ponies.
You just have to keep the top part open so it skims the gunk off of the top and be sure to clean the sponges. Wish I could come up w/a better plan but I am way new at this so we'll see.
Don't generally like crabs, but for the crab/urchin combo I just might make an exception. He just looks so happy there.
Peace
Lynn

 

[KMP]

Well, the brown and white crab died today. This is becoming unfun.

Took the water to the fish store to be tested. PH, Amm, Nitrate, and Nitrites were all fine - same same as when I test. PH was 7.8 - I can't keep it up. The store owner proclaimed that was the problem, and started talking up their ocean water which I started using 3 weeks ago. Later he says he's tested their ocean water and it's been as low as 7.6 - 7.8. So I ask the question - if 7.8 is my problem, but your water is 7.8 then what am I supposed to do to bring up the PH. Uhhh...well you can add the PH 8.2 which earler he told me I shouldn't do.

They did a Calcium test and it was 500ppm. 50ppm to high but not to crazy. The carbonate hardness [alkalinity] they couldn't even get a reading but he didn't seem to be alarmed by that just kept repeating the water changes would sort that out.

So...I came home and dumped in some PH 8.2 and now the coral - which was partially out - has completely sucked itself in. I'm at a loss. Obviously it's just a matter of days before the urchin and other snails are gone. At this point I'm at a loss...I'm reading everything I can and my tests are acceptable. I guess I should focus my attention to other things and let the tank sit for a couple months.

 

[blondie323]

I have had the same problem...I added 3 mexican turbo's adn within 3 weeks they were all dead leaving a all you can eat buffet for my crabs.

My friend also added 2 and they were dead within 2 weeks.

All my tests are coming out as they should. I'm wondering if it doesn't have something to do with the weather change here and my appartment turning into a sauna for a day.

I had also added a royal gramma after having him/her in QT for 3 weeks were there was no sign of ick and now low and behold......ick. She died today but I havent found any remains (crabs must be full)

 

[Craig Lambert]

Snails require very slow acclimation, and do not fair well with big changes in Salinity. First off, I would suggest you purchase a refratometer to measure your salinity. Hydrometers are known to be off by as much as .005. Secondly you absolutely need an alkalinity test kit. Alk, pH and Salinity are the three most important readings in a SW tank. Magnesium and Calcium are close behind.

 

[lcstorc]

I would look long and hard for the remains of the gramma. Something dead and rotting in the tank is going to cause way more problems. Also you mention an appartment turning into a sauna. Most things in a reef tank do not like changes. Temperature changes can be a large factor sometimes. If you can see how much of a temp swing you have and try for a consistant temp as much as possible.
Also on the ph reading what time of day was the test done? Generally ph goes down when the lights are off. So an early morning reading is going to be lowest. 7.8 seems a bit low and I would keep up with water changes and probably add a buffer to bring it up. Wonder about the alk though. The two definitely go hand in hand.
I would keep up with water changes using ro/di water and a good salt and keep monitoring. Hopefully you can pull through with no more losses. Don't give up, it is worth it even if upsetting at times. (Lost a Chevron tang myself today due to a rockslide. Cried for some time.)
Patience and water changes seem to be the best over all advice.
Peace
Lynn

 

[Gina]

When ph readings are low like that the first thing I suspect is faulty readings from the test kit. Ph test kits are notorious for low readings. I would at the least get a new ph test kit and retest your water. The best option is to get a pinpoint ph meter and recalibrate it regularly.

 

[KMP]

Thanks Gina. That's good to know. The test kit I had used and the LFS used were different brands. I may start hunting for one of those ph meters.

 

[gimpy]

I think you should follow your own advice that you said in post one. Your tank has only been set up for about 7 weeks and you did show a little ammonia in your readings (still going thru cycle stages?). Maybe I should not say anything because I am not sure exactly what an "aquapod" is?

I would not add anything to the tank right now until it has a chance to settle down and stabilize. Continue to do regular water changes. What type of snails have you added/do you have?

Good Luck, Frank

 

[KMP]

Just tested the PH - 8.2. The actinic lights are on and each branch of the Frogspawn has popped back out. Not a full bloom, but they look better than yesterday. I have another 5g of ocean water and was planning on a water change today or tomorrow; I think I'll wait until tomorrow since I just did 5g on Wed. Crossing my fingers.

 

[Mad Mike]

Low PH chronically low PH could be an alkalinity issue. Get a good alkalinity test kit. I would start there.

 

[music man]

I'm no expert at this but I have maintained Fish only tanks succesfully for years. Based on what I read above you test the heck out of your water, if all the readings are comming out within norm then it's something you did'nt test like Oxygen depravation, there are a number of ways this can occur and I'm sure there are better people to go into details with but temperature can play a huge role in the ammount of oxygen dissolved in the water. if your temperature fluxuates then your oxygen does too 1-3 degrees is acceptable but too much more than that can be fatal if it keeps happening, also oxygen can be deprived because the surface area of the water is not sufficent to the tank load and increasing the surfase area may be required, an air stone is a good starter in a mini tank so is an additional sump area.
This is just my 2 cents I would hate to see your loved ones suffer, I am not certified in any legal way, infact I usually dont have a clue what I'm saying. but temperature is one thing I never seen mentioned and also water circulation, skimming etc... makes a difference.
Can you house any of the survivors in a friends tank or find any way to reduce the total load in the tank to just the live rock and sand for a few more weeks to give the tank a chance to really stabilize?
finally, I had some issues with water for a while a couple months back and I started doing increased water changes, and the problem just kept getting worse till I tested the water I was using, it had higher nitrates and alk than the water in the tank I was dumping. the RO filters were going at my source. now I always test the water I am putting in the tank which is something I never hear mentioned, I guess everyone like me figures when I Pay 1.00 per gallon it must be good? Wrong~!
Good Luck

 

[KMP]

thanks frank. and sorry for the late response. an aquapod is just a brand of tank...it's a 24g w/pumps/lighting all built in.

i got a KH test kit today and it's still through the roof. not even regeristing. i cleaned the test tube and started over...same result.

 

[12g Dude]

Thanks Gina. That's good to know. The test kit I had used and the LFS used were different brands. I may start hunting for one of those ph meters.

I know where you can get one of those meters Kenny. Seems to me the LFS was loaded with them.

"Support your LFS"...Even though the prices are outrageous...the advice is usualy good!