Red Sea Colours Experiment

Discussion in 'General Reef Aquarium Discussion' started by Uncle99, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. Uncle99

    Uncle99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    377
    Location:
    Province of Ontario, Canada
    I am a lover of Red Sea products. All are very good, quality is great, and if used correctly, bring great results.

    Since my DT is now closed to any further additions and the water has remained on point for 4 months now (running for 17 months) I am going to try the Red Sea Colours Program as an experiment over the next 2-3 months. Some say works, some say waste of money. So we have invested $40 bucks CDN for the 100ml, 4 pack.

    The logic of their claims in what is possible with their product makes some sense to me. I have been very successful with their NoPox carbon dosing solution, so I am curious.

    I mean who would not want enhanced coloration? I also like the fact that they have tied dosage to calcium consumption as a marker, since these trace elements are hard test for accurately.

    So the experiment begins and will run for 2-3 months. We have about 50 corals, lots of LPS, and some SPS which we hope benefit from the process.

    Will bring this back after the test in an attempt to answer if the addition enhanced any of the colours, which corals were affected, to what degree, and which corals showed no change.
     
    #1
    Squatch XXL, Nobbygas and SPR like this.
  2. SPR

    SPR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire England
    It will be interesting to see your findings after a few months.

    I’ve been dosing them manually around once a week at roughly 5ml of each for my system since I started so it’s a bit difficult for me to say for definite if they make a difference, but to be honest the cost is negligible and I totally trust Red Sea.

    I dose by Calcium uptake as per their instructions because the test kit for it looked a nightmare. Infact I sent it straight back!
     
    #2
    Nobbygas and Uncle99 like this.
  3. Nobbygas

    Nobbygas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Location:
    Offenbach nr Frankfurt
    I have also gone full-on Red Sea, using Foundation ABC, NOPOX and Colours ABCD, and since I have I can see good growth on all corals.
    I also dose the Colours manually once a week. I used to dose 6ml per week, but I've increased it to 9ml as my last ICP test showed a few trace elements were a bit low. I'll continue to dose at 9ml for a couple more weeks before sending off for an ICP test again.
     
    #3
    SPR likes this.
  4. Uncle99

    Uncle99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    377
    Location:
    Province of Ontario, Canada
    How long have you been dosing the colours regime?
    Do you notice anything enhancing in color or is it still to early?

    My coral uptake is running 20-25 ppm per day and I have 250 litres so My daily dose is approx 2.5-3.0 ml per day.

    Not sure what to expect from this product...
     
    #4
    Nobbygas, SPR and Pat24601 like this.
  5. Nobbygas

    Nobbygas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Location:
    Offenbach nr Frankfurt
    To be totally honest with you I'm just glad the corals are still alive and appear to be growing ! In the early days of the tank I was known as the 'Coral Killer'. Couldn't keep the bloody things alive......Until I went Full Red Sea.
     
    #5
    SPR likes this.
  6. SPR

    SPR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire England
    That’s a very high Calcium uptake for 250 litres. I’ve got 650 litres (before displacement) in a full blown reef and my daily calcium dose is about 2-3ppm per day ?

    Is the 20-25 ppm definitely correct ?

    When I was on the Red Sea Accelerated Growth Program uptake was only 16ppm Calcium per day and that was full growth with 12.6dKH Alkalinity
     
    #6
    Nobbygas, Uncle99 and Pat24601 like this.
  7. Uncle99

    Uncle99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    377
    Location:
    Province of Ontario, Canada
    I have have 3 clams and about 35 Stoney's, I usually run calcium about 460 (ish) Alk 10, mag 1360.... So all a bit high.
    Its the first time I tried to measure calcium usage, was at 480, retested at 420 two days later, but stayed at 420 over the next two days.
    So I am not sure, will keep testing every two days.

    I did stop the dosing of the colours program as I had a scolymia pull back from the Skelton. This coral has been great for 22 months. Probably coincidence but will stop the experiment for the next few months just in case. image.jpeg
     
    #7
  8. Uncle99

    Uncle99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    377
    Location:
    Province of Ontario, Canada
    Second coral death now, a green open brain, just retracted and flesh just fell off. This coral I have had for a year, no problems.

    Water parameters continue to be on point.

    Based on SPR's question of my calcium uptake which seemed high, I wonder if I overdosed the colours program.

    Did a 25% water change and making no changes until things settle down.
     
    #8
    Nobbygas, Pat24601 and SPR like this.
  9. SPR

    SPR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire England
    I think you would have overdosed if you had continued which is why I mentioned it quickly when I read it. I only dose 5-6ml every 7-10 days manually in my system. I tend to go slightly under as I would sooner air on the side of caution

    I read somewhere in the instructions that the coral colours contain elements that can be ‘very bad’ if over dosed which is why I just manual dose them.

    I would leave the experiment for a while until your system settles down again and in the meantime work out your daily Calcium uptake assuming the 25ppm is incorrect

    I apologise if you know this already but..... When working out the daily usage firstly make sure you have good test kits (I use Red Sea for Ca and Mg) Then rather than testing every 2 days, test on day 1 and then again on day 4 or 5 to get a better average. Don’t add any extra calcium during this time. This should give you a more accurate figure. Then bring calcium levels back up to the correct level.

    Then while your waiting for the system to stabilise (after the Coral Colours incident) repeat the test and you will soon get the hang of it.

    Also a 2 day swing from 480 to 420 looks like testing error so just check your kits etc and if you see any others results that seem ‘odd’ double check them. I learned this with Mg when I started out and dumped who knows how much Mg into my tank! Then held my breath!
     
    #9
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
    Nobbygas, Pat24601 and Uncle99 like this.
  10. Uncle99

    Uncle99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    377
    Location:
    Province of Ontario, Canada
    No apologies, I value your input and appreciate your time.
    If your doing 5-6 every 7-10, in 650, and I'm doing say 12-15ml but in a tank with 2/3 less water then I agree, big overdose.

    It's the first death of anything in this rebuild now running 18 months.

    Going to do a second 25% water change and then watch and wait for a week with no changes except top up.

    Thanks again for your insight!
     
    #10
    Nobbygas, Pat24601 and SPR like this.
  11. SPR

    SPR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire England
    Your more than welcome, we are all learning as we go!

    I think another 25% water change is a good idea to get you back on track and then see how you go from there. Effectively if you’ve taken out 50% of the water you’ve also taken out 50% of any excess coral colours.

    I think we caught it in the early days of dosing before any serious damage was done. Well excluding the corals you mention!

    PS if you want to see what coral colours can do have a look on my build thread if you haven’t already. I have lots of colour lol!
     
    #11
    Nobbygas, Pat24601 and Uncle99 like this.
  12. Uncle99

    Uncle99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    377
    Location:
    Province of Ontario, Canada
    Big thanks SPR, your quick return saved the rest of my coral.
    I am going to try a hanna checker as I am still getting results which I now know are not correct.

    I also changed my salt to Red Sea Pro as this mixes up high on all three, we do 20% water change every weak so we may not require and dosing at all.

    Nice build! Wow.....thanks again, cheers
     
    #12
    Nobbygas, Pat24601 and SPR like this.
  13. SPR

    SPR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire England
    No problem and thank you Uncle99

    If your changing to the Red Sea Coral Pro, have a look at the Foundation ABC+ skeletal elements.

    If you use that between water changes at the correct dose it’s a very easy way to dose and maintain stable foundation elements without full blown auto dosing. I used it for a short while in my original Max E260 which was about the same size as your system.

    On the Hanna, the Alkalinity (dKH version) and phosphate (ultra low version) are excellent and supper simple.Forget the Calcium! It looks like a mad scientist kit and mine was sent straight back compared to the Red Sea. Just my opinion though!

    The Red Sea kits are very sensitive especially the Mg so don’t bother testing if your not in the mood for it as unless your methodical you will get off results. And make sure the test vials are kept clean rinsing with RO. I didn’t when I started out and am just about to order some more.
     
    #13
    Nobbygas and Uncle99 like this.
  14. Nobbygas

    Nobbygas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Location:
    Offenbach nr Frankfurt
    I concur with Shaun. Do a test, then do nothing, add nothing for four days, then test again. Don't rely on just one set of tests. Repeat the above again, until you get an understanding of how much Calc is being consumed. Once you have that figure it is easy to get the dosage of the colours right.
    On top of everything else Shaun has correctly suggested I will also add that a couple of ICP tests should be taken. When you think you have your Calc usage and colours dosing amounts right, send off for an ICP. Wait for about six weeks, continue the dosing, then send another off. The second one will confirm that your dosing figures are either too high or too low, and adjust accordingly.
    Oh, and make-up a small Excel speadsheet so you can easily record all the necessary parameters.
     
    #14
    Uncle99 and SPR like this.
  15. Uncle99

    Uncle99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    377
    Location:
    Province of Ontario, Canada
    Thanks Nobbygas, I think I got just a bit to cocky on this one, and while I had numbers, did not know what they meant. Not as bad as no test, but obviously just as dangerous....lesson learned. I used a worksheet since the build but thought the test would have been more accurate, or maybe it's just me that's not accurate, or both of us!

    Everything is back to normal now with just weekly water changes so far so I am going to retry this in the summer when I have enough data to make an informed decision.

    And to think I'm telling people never to dose without testing....which I will change to never dose without testing, retesting, recording and understanding what the numbers might mean....
     
    #15
    Nobbygas and SPR like this.
  16. Nobbygas

    Nobbygas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Location:
    Offenbach nr Frankfurt
    The problem with our home tests are that they cannot be entirely 100% accurate. The main thing is to keep a record, and use the results to get an understanding of the average trend. Sometimes, on tests like Calc for example, I get the odd high or low result. When that happens I do not react as it's best to look at the results over a period of time to get a good understanding of the trend. Use the test results as a guide, and don't take each result as gospel. Sometimes, as humans, we can and do screw up the tests unintentionally.
     
    #16
    Uncle99 and SPR like this.
  17. SPR

    SPR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire England
    Yes I also agree with this. If i get any 'odd' readings I ignore them assuming everything looks ok.

    Like Mg is still 1600+ but I haven't added any other than what comes through water changes every 2 weeks roughly. I am about to order some new test vials from Red Sea as the ones i have are 2 years old now and just wont clean properly. They have scale on them which just wont come off no matter what I use. I'm sure this is affecting the Mg reading in some way as its just so sensitive.
     
    #17
    Nobbygas and Uncle99 like this.
  18. Uncle99

    Uncle99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    377
    Location:
    Province of Ontario, Canada
    My fault, I should know better, but absolutely correct
    Replaced the scoly so back to par
    88EA103D-9795-48DD-B5C6-F96502465023.jpeg
     
    #18
    Nobbygas, nanoreefing4fun and SPR like this.
  19. Oxylebius

    Oxylebius Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4,645
    Likes Received:
    3,101
    Location:
    Washington D.C. Metro Area
    Reef Chronicle:
    Yup
    I've been dosing the colors for years. The issue is that the metals can build up in your tank if you aren't doing regular water changes to bring those levels down. Last year I went 6-7 months w/o a water change and was dosing the colors, Mg, Ca and Alk (BRS two-part w/the colors). I wanted to automate as much as possible. All was going really well until towards the end of that time. Had too many corals starting to die super slowly bottom up. It was the metal build up in the system. Tore the birds nest and acroporas out this past early fall as they were the ones that didn't do so well. Still dosing the way I was, but now doing water changes every 2-3 weeks. I dose 1ml of each color a day.

    Aug 2016 with good looking coral
    20160813_150344.web small.jpg

    Didn't take pics on the downward spiral or after pruning (filled a home depot bucket half full).

    Dec 2017, coral making a come back
    20171217_135526.websmall.jpg
     
    #19
  20. Uncle99

    Uncle99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    377
    Location:
    Province of Ontario, Canada
    I appreciate that input as always.
    It appears to be quite easy of overdose this stuff and as you say, the build up of metals is dangerous as well.
    While I love Red Sea products and will continue to use them, this one I have put away for now as I am not comfortable in its application.

    I have dosed iodide for years, that one I have confidence in.

    I am going to look into dosing potassium for the blue/red, but only if I feel I can test for it properly.

    BTW....love your DT....
     
    #20
    Nobbygas and SPR like this.
Loading...
Similar Threads Forum Date
Enhance Coral Colours? General Reef Aquarium Discussion Dec 2, 2017
LEDs too purple and wipe out the cool colours :( Equipment Oct 5, 2013
peroxide dip forrock experiment DIY Dec 14, 2016
Experimental algae scrubber Equipment Jun 1, 2015
Marcus80's Red Sea Max C-130 experiment. Reef Chronicles Sep 18, 2014

Share This Page