Boomer
Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard
OK, I read them all so let me start over, to include some myths 
First
Salinity 0.25-0.26 (Refractometer)
Which I will assume is really 1.025 - 1.026. There is no unit on a refract that is 0.25 - 0.26. Either his Ca++ test kit is bad or not being used correctly, the salt mix is bad from the manufacture or they are adding water to salt at the store.
I would not be advising him to add anything till we really know what the Ca++ is.
And on another point His Alk is DKH-9.5 or 3.4 meq/l. If 20 Ca++ppm leaves water it takes 1 meq/l Alk with it. If the Ca++ is suppose to be 375 ppm using TM and he is at 250 ppm Ca++, then
375 - 250 = 125
125 ppm drop / 20 = 6.25 meq/ will be used. So, he would be a neg ~ - 5 dKH. CAN'T Happen. So, it is either a testing error or a bad salt form the manufacture. I will bet on tesing error
Cliff
Have you recently calibrated your refractometer with two solutions (7&11)?
That is for a pH meter / probe not a refract. I know you well, go to your room without super for saying that. I actually do not believe you said that I'm in sock from that based on RC posts on the chem. forum. Where you drinking Cliff when you posted that
Matt
Refractometers are to be calibrated with a solution of a known salt value, usually 35ppt, or 1.0264
Yes, as in PinPoint 53 mS calibration solution.
Nitrite is the second stage of the Nitrogen cycle of the biological filter(It is what the Ammonia is turned/converted to), it can be harmful to fish and inverts, even at small quatities.
That is a myth brought over from FW. Even levels of 100 ppm NO-2 is not toxic. Seawater has 19,000 ppm Cl-, which acts as a protection ion against nitrite toxicity. It is one of the reasons why we add "aquarium salt" to fresh water with high NO2- to reduce methemoglobin anemia, aka, brown blood. Methemoglobin does not bind with O2 like Hemoglobin, to include causing a shift in the iron from Fe+2 to Fe +3. And Nitrite ions produce Methemoglobin.
Nitrate is the last stage of the N cycle, and is not so harmful to fish and most inverts. In high quatities it can stress the fish and kill some inverts.
True but that is stretching it big time as you have to be in the 100's of ppm, which I have never seen even in a FOT. However, much lower levels can and will stress corals and/or reduce growth even at less than 1 ppm in some corals. One of the reasons behind we often use higher than normal Alk, as it cancels out the NO3- or helps cancel it out.
reefmasta
good advice, my advice is use liquid reef from brightwell aquatics. its got everything you need in it. (calc,alk, mag, potas, ECT) and i use it religiously with ALL my coral tanks. and only test for calcium and never ever have a problem. but then agin i NEVER do waterchanges. maybe 20% once a year just to do it. my refugium is working =) and i just use replinish (essential elements) for RO top offs.
Sorry, I do not buy any of this and consider it nonsense and a sales pitch for Brightwell. To include many other bogus claims by Brightwell, not that all their products are bogus.
If you only test for Calcium, never change water and only add liquid reef where does your Alk come from of 300 ppm ? And don't tell me it comes from liquid reef, as it CAN'T. Good pH can be kept with the right kind of plants, if one is into marine plants, as they use up CO2 which raises the pH. Aragonite, which they have in their product does no dissolve in water despite claims.
Try to think outside the box. If aragonite is dissolving then how do corals grow which are make of aragonite. If aragonite is dissolving and you have a aragonite sand bed, then one would never have to add any buffer or Calcium, let alone liquid reef. But those with such beds add buffer and calcium
So where may the high Alk come from ? Well, being that liquid reef has powdered aragonite in it, which does not dissolve and that fine aragonite is in suspension in your tank and you test for Alk and get a good reading how is that ? When you test for Alk that sample has the aragonite in it and the Alk kit uses HCl-, hydrochloric acid, which does what ? It dissolves the aragonite and releases CO3-- and HCO3- which gives a good or high Alk reading, which is a false reading. If you took liquid reef and put some in a liter of water and then ran 1/2 of that water through a 1 micron sock, to get out that aragonite........hmmm there is now very little Alk in the test kit reading. If you now tested the other 1/2 with the aragonite still in it.........hmmm Alk high.
Edit:
I forgot Look at what is used in Ca++ test kits, NaOH, Drain cleaner. It will also dissolve some of the aragonite and give false high calcium readings
First
Salinity 0.25-0.26 (Refractometer)
Which I will assume is really 1.025 - 1.026. There is no unit on a refract that is 0.25 - 0.26. Either his Ca++ test kit is bad or not being used correctly, the salt mix is bad from the manufacture or they are adding water to salt at the store.
I would not be advising him to add anything till we really know what the Ca++ is.
And on another point
His Alk is DKH-9.5 or 3.4 meq/l. If 20 Ca++ppm leaves water it takes 1 meq/l Alk with it. If the Ca++ is suppose to be 375 ppm using TM and he is at 250 ppm Ca++, then375 - 250 = 125
125 ppm drop / 20 = 6.25 meq/ will be used. So, he would be a neg ~ - 5 dKH. CAN'T Happen. So, it is either a testing error or a bad salt form the manufacture. I will bet on tesing error
Cliff
Have you recently calibrated your refractometer with two solutions (7&11)?
That is for a pH meter / probe not a refract. I know you well, go to your room without super for saying that. I actually do not believe you said that
I'm in sock from that based on RC posts on the chem. forum. Where you drinking Cliff when you posted that Matt
Refractometers are to be calibrated with a solution of a known salt value, usually 35ppt, or 1.0264
Yes, as in PinPoint 53 mS calibration solution.
Nitrite is the second stage of the Nitrogen cycle of the biological filter(It is what the Ammonia is turned/converted to), it can be harmful to fish and inverts, even at small quatities.
That is a myth brought over from FW. Even levels of 100 ppm NO-2 is not toxic. Seawater has 19,000 ppm Cl-, which acts as a protection ion against nitrite toxicity. It is one of the reasons why we add "aquarium salt" to fresh water with high NO2- to reduce methemoglobin anemia, aka, brown blood. Methemoglobin does not bind with O2 like Hemoglobin, to include causing a shift in the iron from Fe+2 to Fe +3. And Nitrite ions produce Methemoglobin.
Nitrate is the last stage of the N cycle, and is not so harmful to fish and most inverts. In high quatities it can stress the fish and kill some inverts.
True but that is stretching it big time as you have to be in the 100's of ppm, which I have never seen even in a FOT. However, much lower levels can and will stress corals and/or reduce growth even at less than 1 ppm in some corals. One of the reasons behind we often use higher than normal Alk, as it cancels out the NO3- or helps cancel it out.
reefmasta
good advice, my advice is use liquid reef from brightwell aquatics. its got everything you need in it. (calc,alk, mag, potas, ECT) and i use it religiously with ALL my coral tanks. and only test for calcium and never ever have a problem. but then agin i NEVER do waterchanges. maybe 20% once a year just to do it. my refugium is working =) and i just use replinish (essential elements) for RO top offs.
Sorry, I do not buy any of this and consider it nonsense and a sales pitch for Brightwell. To include many other bogus claims by Brightwell, not that all their products are bogus.
If you only test for Calcium, never change water and only add liquid reef where does your Alk come from of 300 ppm ? And don't tell me it comes from liquid reef, as it CAN'T. Good pH can be kept with the right kind of plants, if one is into marine plants, as they use up CO2 which raises the pH. Aragonite, which they have in their product does no dissolve in water despite claims.
Try to think outside the box. If aragonite is dissolving then how do corals grow which are make of aragonite. If aragonite is dissolving and you have a aragonite sand bed, then one would never have to add any buffer or Calcium, let alone liquid reef. But those with such beds add buffer and calcium
So where may the high Alk come from ? Well, being that liquid reef has powdered aragonite in it, which does not dissolve and that fine aragonite is in suspension in your tank and you test for Alk and get a good reading how is that ? When you test for Alk that sample has the aragonite in it and the Alk kit uses HCl-, hydrochloric acid, which does what ? It dissolves the aragonite and releases CO3-- and HCO3- which gives a good or high Alk reading, which is a false reading. If you took liquid reef and put some in a liter of water and then ran 1/2 of that water through a 1 micron sock, to get out that aragonite........hmmm there is now very little Alk in the test kit reading. If you now tested the other 1/2 with the aragonite still in it.........hmmm Alk high.
Edit:
I forgot
Look at what is used in Ca++ test kits, NaOH, Drain cleaner. It will also dissolve some of the aragonite and give false high calcium readings
Last edited:
