please help

[forestal]

Hi all,
i posted this on fragexchange too, just wanted as many opinions as i can get...
after the disappointment of my 3 dead fish, the rest in the tank are doing fine.

however, i am combatting a hair algae issue, and am generally unhappy and frustrated with the tank (my 60hex - 10 months old).

i change the water weekly, keep the parameters ideal, i think; i feed appropriately...yet my ability to get corals to grow is poor, half my sps went rtn, others are growing.

i think my rbta is going now too - unless it is splitting (i hope)looks injured but still extended.
i put in 1 capful of DT's once a day, 2-3x/week using the oyster eggs, plus flake food, occasionally mysis (pe or hikari), and 2 small pinches of cyclopeeze 2x day for the gorgonians

i kept delaying getting an anemone, for this very reason, the condylactis are easy, and i was hoping to try the rbta then move it to my 150 which is where i want it eventually....it looks like something chewed it up, could my peppermint shrimp do that?

i am so bummed, i almost want to take it down and consolidate to the big system (in my basement) but this tank is nice in the living room...maybe do fish only...i dont know, just frustrated...

should i break down the tank and put the rock into my bigger system, or just take this as a phase, becuase the tank is still very young (i am leaning toward the latter) - it is in my living room, maybe a fish only tank?
also caring for more than 1 set of tanks may get daunting once the big guys are stocked.

i have my 150/120 with 100 sump cooking along nicely without livestock, just liverock and sand bed now 4 months old (i am impressed with my patience) and have all the flow issues down with a good calfo style manifold for the returns.

i think i may just be tired and feeling frustrated, sorry for the ramble

thanks for any input...

 

[mojoreef]

Hey Dan dont get bummed, everyone goes through the uglies from time to time...builds character, lol

Hard algae is a result of nutrients plain and simple so you just have to nail the source. In looking at your feeding regimine and your coral typing I would say that is a great place to start. Your tank seem to be a mix of corals with very different demands and requirements.
The food choice you are feeding and the amounts are good for some and very poor for others.
Cyclops eze is a very concintrated food and will foul your water if not used up, so I would target feed these to the corals you feel need it (which in my opinion are none) the photoplankton again is a concentrated form of Phosphates, again if not used up will be just algae food. In your case the gorg's will use it but nothing else beyond some scattered filter worms. The oyster eggs is truely a waste of time. at some 20 bucks an ounce when thier is only 7% protien in the whole bottle is money donw the drain. Specially when one has to hope the egg hits the coral in the mouth and that the coral has the digestive system to digest it. Flake food again is high in Phosphates. That and I would imagine your dsb has a fully developed anaerobic zone so your getting leaching from thier to.

I would say to take the hex tank and make it enviromentally correct for the species you are wanting to keep. So softies, anenomes gorgs?? and then take the sps type corals and move them to an enviroment that is more to thier liking (low nutrient).

On the foods truely I would cut all the food you feed out and just concintrate on feeding the fish, they in turn will feed the corals and anenomes. You can always target feed the anenome if you have to. the gorg if not photosynthetic will need some phyto (resoning behind enviromentally species specific).


just some thoughts


Mike

 

[Woodstock]

Good info Mike.

Good luck Dan!

 

[forestal]

Thanks very much Mike....no doubt the tank is overfed...my thinking is the nonphotosynthetic gorgonian (i may put it back in my nano) was being fed the cyclopeeze and dts'...perhaps i will feed nothing but the few fish, and see what happens...i am reluctant to add any fish, if anything i would prefer smaller bioload...
so i will jst add a bit of flake 2x day and see what happens, since the tank is established sort of the nonphotosynth. gorgs may do just fine with 1-2x week target cyclopeeze

the anemone is still alive but small and partially extended, looks like it is torn up on one edge - dont know why

 

[rckmtl]

It looks like mike gave you some great info!

I'd say keep it going. I'd run into the same problems with my tank, when it was younger. Most of them just fixed themselves as the tank matured. And it gave me a lot of good learning experiences.

one other question. does your tank have a lot of pods? (ampipods,copepods,ect...)?

I noticed that once my pod population got into full swing, my water parms. tested a lot better and were more consistent. presumably due to the little guys eating any extra food before it could rot.

 

[cheeks69]

Very well said Mike !
IMO I would stop using Flake food like Mike said it's loaded with phosphates and contributing heavily to the algea problem.
RHF:

Organic phosphorus compounds, as well as orthophosphate, are so prevalent that any natural food will contain significant concentrations of phosphorus. Flake fish food is typically about 1% phosphorus (3% phosphate equivalent) by weight. Consequently, if 5 grams of flake food is added to a 100 gallon tank, there is the potential for the inorganic orthophosphate level to be raised by 0.4 ppm in that SINGLE FEEDING. That fact can be a significant issue for reef keepers...Here is a list of ways that people can reduce phosphate levels.

They are listed in order of preference that I have for addressing these issues in my own system:

1. The big winner is macroalgae growth. Not only does it do a good job of reducing phosphate levels, but it reduces other nutrients as well (e.g., nitrogen compounds). It is also inexpensive and may benefit the tank in other ways, such as a haven for the growth of small life forms that help feed and diversify the tank. It is also fun to watch. I’d also include in this category the growth of any organism that you routinely harvest, whether corals or something else.

2. Skimming is another big winner, in my opinion. Not only does it reduce organic forms of phosphate, but it reduces other nutrients and increases gas exchange. Gas exchange is an issue that many people don’t recognize, but that can contribute to pH problems.

3. The use of limewater, and possibly other high pH alkalinity supplements, is also a good choice. It can be very inexpensive, and it solves two other big issues for reef keepers: maintaining calcium and alkalinity.

4. Commercial phosphate binding agents clearly are effective.

5. Simply keeping the pH high in a reef tank (8.4) may help keep phosphate that binds to rock and sand from reentering the water column. Allowing the pH to drop into the 7’s, especially if it drops low enough to dissolve some of the aragonite, may serve to deliver phosphate to the water column. In such systems (typically those with carbon dioxide reactors), raising the pH may help control soluble phosphate.

 

[mojoreef]

Dan moving the gorgs to a specialized tank would be the best solution. it would allow you to feed them as required and not have to muck up the main tank with thier foods.
Adding another fish, specially one or tow to compete with the algae is not a bad idea at all. The detritus in your tank from fish waste is by far the best food source you could offer your corals. It is also one that we all have plenty of and one that virually all coral will ingest and can digest. Everything else you add is just adding to the nutrient load.


Mike

 

[forestal]

yeah, i got tons of pods, mostly amphipods...

alternative to flake? i have mysis (hikari and PE), but these seem to foul the water, even if i presoak... i made a seafood mash, but same sort of thing, i only use a little at a time...perhaps i will get a young yellow tang to help with the algae

the gorgs seem happier in the main tank and stay open more than when i spot fed in the 10 gallon nano, perhaps i will frag and see which does better .

pics to show off my hair algae...
oh, and another bad...my turbinaria has been hassled to the point of rtn from my clowns

sorry about the size, cant' seem to get the uploader to work to make thumbnails...is there a trick to it?

 

[mojoreef]

You know it might be a better idea to move the sps, you have alot of gorgs. On the food, even little peices of shrimp are good, just feed the fish and allow the waste and detritus to feed the rest of the tank. Go as easy as you can on the phyto while still being able to meet the requirements of the gorgs. And lastly get a competitor in thier, it will help


Mike

 

[forestal]

any suggestions on the competitor? was thinkin yellow tang, any tang i would get would go to bigger tank eventually.
i think i will move the gorgs back to the nano, better for them and can concentrate food without fouling the tank.

 

[mojoreef]

More astrea snails, a tang, or rabbit fish, long spined urchin

mike

 

[forestal]

theurchin i am afraid of it knocking stuff over, i have a black urchin which has finally learned not to do this...
intereseting, i think astrea are the only type of snail i don't have.. i will order thanks mIke

 

[mojoreef]

On the urchin Dan just give it a hair cut!!! If the spines get to long, snip them back, they look neat with a mohawk


MIke

 

[forestal]

i didnt want to hurt the guy, but thats a great idea, and really wouldnt hurt i guess...

i moved the diodogorgea to the nano, i think it will be happier

thanks for all the advice Mike

 

[Woodstock]

On the urchin Dan just give it a hair cut!!! If the spines get to long, snip them back, they look neat with a mohawk


MIke

LOL!! I have heard it all now!! :turntable

 

[mojoreef]

LOL hey it works!! lol it doesnt hurt them and they grow the spines back anyway. Nothing finer then a well groomed urchin for algae care!!!!!!!!!!

MIke

 

[Woodstock]

Ya know.. I have put my urchin in the sump because of it's long spines. I bet my husband will get a HUGE laugh when he sees me trimming it's spines! LOL!

....hummm...how long does it take for them to grow back?

 

[corvettephreek]

LOL hey it works!! lol it doesnt hurt them and they grow the spines back anyway. Nothing finer then a well groomed urchin for algae care!!!!!!!!!!

MIke

:LOL:

 

[forestal]

Hi all...I think i have extra reasons for breaking down this tank and putting the rock and leftover stock in my bigger system.

#1 altho hair algae is a phase, i wonder if the 400w is overkill and the reason my sps and lps start out doing well but then rtn..perhaps burned out?

#2...(more weight) wife says the electric bill is 300 a month and altho she loves looking at the tank, she would rather consolidate to the big system which will also be nice to look at, and hopefully we will save some cash without this tank...

#3 altho i love the look of the hex, it will be easier to care for just one system...

please post your comments or criticisms...i plan on doing tonite...if anyone is local and wants a 60 hex/stand/canopy 400w lights...let me know

 

[TDEVIL]

well, imo, do what is best for you and your wife, it sounds like you have already made up your mind , one system is a lot easier even if it is larger

good luck and keep us posted

Jay