PH and Alkaline issues in tank

Beach Girl

Beach Girl

Member
So my son has a 5 gal bookshelf aquarium and I have been letting it cycle for well over a month now. There are no fish in it, I used fish food and deli shrimp to cycle the water. The PH is so low that it doesn't read in the test strips, NO KIDDING! and the Alkalinity is at 0! I have buffered many times and it isn't working, so what the heck? How do I get the Kdh up to a normal level and stay there. I have some plants in there and an airstone, heater and filter and that is it. I can't get the PH to stay up unless I get the Alkaline up so I am scratching my head. I have to say it is much easier in my saltwater tank where the rocks and the sand help buffer it.

I have had tanks for years and I have never had this problem. Stupid city water, GRRR!
 
sasquatch

sasquatch

Brunt of all Jokes~
PREMIUM
hmmm, test strips are not good, get something better for starters, while at the store have them test the water to get a second opinion, I have always used a mix of crushed coral and sand for substrate or even run a container or canister filter with crushed coral in it, city water MUST have a certain level of ph for health so check your strips from tap water just for fun
 
Smokey301

Smokey301

Member
Im not sure how to put links on a post but search this site for Reef Aquarium Chemistry for beginners, its in 4 dif parts if i remember but is def an excellent piece of reading.
 
QuentinB

QuentinB

Member
What salt are you using? My instant ocean will read as soon as it's mixed! Only like 7.6-7.8, but still.

I would take some water out, put it in a cup, and add baking soda little by little until you get a reading. You'll at least be able to determine if your test strips are at fault. I'm not sure the proper procedure, but I know in freshwater it's suggested to mix up baking soda in water to add to raise the pH, as african cichlids like a higher pH. Might be worth looking into the chemistry forum, it'd be a cheap solution until you have rocks in there.
 
Beach Girl

Beach Girl

Member
I brought the water to work with me and tested the freshwater tank twice, both times it gave the same reading. I also tested my saltwater just for fun and it read fine with the same strips as did the water from the freshwater tanks at work. So it isn't the strips even thought they suck. I use them just for a baseline. I have repeatedly done the baking soda trick and after a day or so it continues to drop. Today I am going to the LFS to have them test it and maybe make suggestions. I will definitely look at the chemistry forum thanks Quentin and Smokey. BTW my tap water also reads at 6.4. Maybe I should test the water in my rain barrel just for fun.
 
QuentinB

QuentinB

Member
Tap water at 6.4 is a little acidic, but not bad. 7 is neutral, which is the "goal" for most water supplies. The plants might not be helping either, but your LFS will probably know better than I do.
 
sasquatch

sasquatch

Brunt of all Jokes~
PREMIUM
Beach Girl said:
I brought the water to work with me and tested the freshwater tank twice, both times it gave the same reading. I also tested my saltwater just for fun and it read fine with the same strips as did the water from the freshwater tanks at work. So it isn't the strips even thought they suck. I use them just for a baseline. I have repeatedly done the baking soda trick and after a day or so it continues to drop. Today I am going to the LFS to have them test it and maybe make suggestions. I will definitely look at the chemistry forum thanks Quentin and Smokey. BTW my tap water also reads at 6.4. Maybe I should test the water in my rain barrel just for fun.
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there is only one answer here... you have something in the tank that is producing acid, usually that is detritus/food/rotting plant matter etc, I would remove some substrate, wash it, and let it stand with some water in it and check the ph to eliminate that bit, how about a picture or two?
 
Beach Girl

Beach Girl

Member
My LFS tested it with Salifert and it read 5.8. I used baking soda and our Betta is alive so far (they can tolerate more acidity then some others). I will definitely take some gravel out and test it with some plain tap water. Thanks for that idea!
Question why would the airstone be a problem? Just curious because if I don't have to take it out I don't want to (it's a truck airstone decoration and my son is super in to cars)
I can try taking the plants out and see if that helps. Its weird because there is really nothing in the tank, literally 3 things, the betta, the airstone. and a plant. This sucks if it is going to be this much of a hassle. Thanks for helping me!
 
sasquatch

sasquatch

Brunt of all Jokes~
PREMIUM
uhh? no filter? no sponge? these are a great place for rotting stuff to gather, are you testing for ammonia and nitrite? the plants may not be sufficient for biological filtration
 
F

Fishwhiz

New Member
Its difficult to buffer for a small tank. You may want to just buy pre-buffered sea water for that small of a tank. If you're using ro/di, you may want to pre-buffer it in a bucket as an alternative, but complicated for just a 5-gal.
 
KARussell88

KARussell88

Member
Can you buy R/O water and use it for a water change?
Also I have heard that some heater will bring your Ph down if they are not functioning right.
If your doing water changes and your pH is going down, then its obviously something inside that tank.
It sort of sucks you added the betta so early with all of this going on because your going to stress him out now trying to get this all worked out coupled with the stress he may already be in with such acidic water.
 
Beach Girl

Beach Girl

Member
To answer a few questions. Yes I have a filter with brand new pads (carbon in a floss bag). I have replaced the pads again just to be sure there is nothing icky in them. Ammonia and nitrates/trites are at 0. I have been buffering every other day and the Betta is doing fine I am watching him closely. I have done 2 50% water changes. Tomorrow I am going to go to the store and get some spring water and do a change with that and see if it helps. Yes I know I shouldn't have added the Betta but is is hard constantly turning down my husband AND my son! I finally caved so I got the Betta because they can at least tolerate acidic water better then most. Rice patties can run pretty acidic so the are genetically programmed to be more tolerant. And no I don't normally stress fish out on purpose.

I think it is my tap water because I used to use tap water for my saltwater tank and I had PH problems there too. The same thing constantly low and hard to buffer up. I now use natural sea water and have no problems. Maybe I will find a nice pristine lake and fill my sons 5 gal with that. After it has been tested of course!
 
PEMfish

PEMfish

Well-Known Member
Beach Girl said:
T Ammonia and nitrates/trites are at 0.
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Im not sure I take that for fact yet. Im sorry to say. But those test strips you've been using are not accurate at all. If those are the source of this information then I'm not real sure it is useful.

I would try distilled, not spring, as spring can be high in minerals. Not always such a good thing. I recommend getting distilled and then buffering back to being usable ( try adding RO Right I think they call it, its a buffer mix to bring RO water back from nothing to use in FW. Just make sure its meant for FW. )
 
Beach Girl

Beach Girl

Member
Sasquach good Idea about the crushed coral, I'll try it. My water was tested at the LFS with salifert. I only use test strips as a baseline BETWEEN regular testing. I know test strips are crap but it gives me an idea if something is up. Betta is still fine and eating well. Thanks everyone for your ideas.
 
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