OK - Ready for more Help...

[swezey]

Alright... well to recap - I picked up my tank right before Thanksgiving. It was an establisehd tank (specs below)... supposedly with live rock. Honestly, I dont see anything on the rock EXCEPT... I am now getting the nice brown algae (RUST??) on the top of the rocks and the tank glass. Not much but about every 2 weeks I need to clean the tank glass. Now I'm on well water here and have simply been adding tap water to refill the tank - have not done a water change yet. I think my well water may have some phosphates or something. However, the outfit that moved the tank has come 3 or 4 times while I have been at work to check the tank and I don't know what they do. I want to add some corals, shrooms, etc. which is why I bought the T5 lights - I knew what I had wasn't enough - but now I think I'm jumping the gun. Here is my what I think I should do:

1) I already have the new T5's but I'm not changing the lights yet.
2) I have some water testing equipment on the way (ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, pH, etc.) but it hasnt arrived yet. I want to test the tank water and my well water and see where things stand.

I really think I need to establish that my water is OK. Then I think I need a "cleanup crew" that I see so many places for sale. This is your snails, crabs, etc, etc... I'm thinking also maybe I need a RO/DI unit for my water additions (and changes if I'm going to do them - have to see what the "fish guys" as I call them have been doing).

I do not have a quanrantine tank - do I need one of these to add the "cleaner crew"? And how to you gather all those little guys up after two or three weeks in the quarantine tank if you do? If my water is OK, can I just get one of these cleaner crew kits and dump them in?? Obviously if the water is not OK, I'll address that first. I can always buy water until I get the RO/DI going (any suggestions on a good quality RO/DI model for not much $$$??)

Next thing is I'd like is a pair of clowns and an anemone to replace the ones that didnt survive the move. Any suggestions here?? Oh, there is some nice fine green algae which I think is the good stuff growing on the rocks and I found four tiny tiny tiny white things that look like crowns attached to the rocks that are definately alive because when fish swim by too close they retract and are so small retracted that you cant even see them but when they are open they are obvious (as long as you know where to look). What are these things?? Any clues - they are kind of neat looking.

Anyway, thanks again for a great site and any help you can give is much appreciated. I'm still trying to learn as quick as I can.

Oh I almost forgot - I have plenty of room in the tank for more rock - the guy I bought from had lots of HUGE pieces of the white coral and I didnt put it all back in when the tank got moved. Should I add some more live rock? Especially since Im not sure if I have any? Also, can I get live rock cured that I can safely just put in? I'm really not into the whole rinsing, picking worms off, letting it stink up the house for 2 weeks before I do deal. Or is that just never a good idea no matter what the seller says about the live rock?? Anyway, thanks again!!

 

[RazerCorals]

A picture would be worth a thousand words .

Suggestions:
Add your light when it comes. You will find your algae will grow fast and you will be cleaning the glass. The brown rust algae which is probably diatoms will go away soon. Now that your algae is growning out of hand you need a clean-up crew. But wait lets back up, you tested your water and ammonia is zero, nitrite is 0, and nitrates are below 20. Good job, now its time to add some clean up critters. You probably want to start off with 100 astrea snails and eventually get that number to around 200. Then you definately need some cerith snails or nassarius snails again you probably need 100. This should take care of some algae and waste issues. You could do hermits instead, but I always find the crabs eat the snails. Ok so now the algae is under control, but you will still probably want a ro/di unit. I recommend the Typhoon 3 by airwaterice.com excellent customer service too. Otherwise check out thefilterguys.com and tell them I sent you

 

[Yarr]

Yes i agree you need a RO/DI unit to do yoru water changes. which imo are extrmely improtant
Yes, id wait til your test kits get ther and u can confirm the quality of your water befo4re adding anything
Yes, Id get a cleanup crew for the tank.
no, i wouldnt get an anenome yet.
Yes id get soem more LR

Id definatel ylike to see a picture of the tank to gauge how much rock and algea and stuf fu actually have.

 

[blue_eyes53813]

Hello, I think getting the liverock situated in the tank before buying anything is the best way to go. You would hate to add the liverock and have a big jump in the ammonia and nitrate and kill everything you buy. You could get a big /huge rubbermaid container and put the liverock in there to cure for about 3-4 weeks. Just add water and heater and powerheads, That saves alot of dirtyness in the tank. For the clean up crew. after your test kits come and water test are all zero , you could order, aclimate all snail, hermits very slow. and add to the tank. No need to quarantine them. But like i said before, I would get all the rock in there first or you may cover the poor little things up. As for the clown fish and anemone. The anemone needs to have a well established tank. You should really waite for awhile on that. The RO /DI unit should be first on your list. They are really a must. Good luck

 

[swezey]

Folks,

Wow - great advice so far. I will post some pics of the tank tonight and since I havent cleaned in a while you'll see the brown algae I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure its diatoms (from what I've read), but I'm not really sure what that is or why it shows up now. BTW, the tang seems to like eating it as it collects in pretty good quantitiy in the corners of the tank where the two pieces of glass meet. He sticks his long (nose? beak? proboscis?) "whatever " in there and picks it out. Yummy!!

 

[wickjr]

I would definitely either get an RO/DI unit, or find somewhere to get RO/DI filtered water. I am sure well water is very high in nutrients, which will only fuel the algae more. Ocean coral reefs are very low in nutrients, so corals won't do well in high nutrient levels either. You mentioned your test kit will have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, PH, what about Phosphate? You really need to test for and remove that as well. It will feed the algae. If you are going to make the tank a reef tank, you will need a lot of live rock. Everything I read says 1.5 to 2 pounds per gallon of water. That will help with the biological filtraton and diversity of critters and fauna. But as someone already said, if you add a bunch of LR, the ammonia spike will be huge and the fish will not do well, or even worse, die. I'm not sure how to go about making a FO tank to a reef, especially with that many fish. Seems like it would be a tough job, unless there is already enough LR.

 

[swezey]

Re: OK - Ready for more Help... Updated with Pics!

OK well here is an update. I decided I couldn't wait and added my T-5 fixtures. I went from 4 30W GE Aqua Rays (T-8) which are 9325K and 2 30W Interpet T-8 Tritons (180 watts total) to 4 54W T-5 10K daylights and 4 54W T-5 460nm actinics (432 watts total). Obviously, the amount of light is dramatically different but what I wasnt ready for was the way it changed how the tank looked. I'm not saying better or worse - but definately a change. I tried to kind of scientifically take before and after pics (same camera settings, same distance, etc.) I didn't get it exactly right but not too bad. The first 5 pics are BEFORE with the old lights. The next 5 pics are with ALL new lights on. The remaining 5 pics are the new lights with the actinics OFF (just the 4 10K's on). I'm curious what everyone thinks of the change. Notice how much bluer the tank looks!! Oh and sorry if I'm not doing the pics right, I'm a newbie. Here goes... (set images per page to 16 and filename ascending and click sort and you can see them all at once in order)

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/photopost/showgallery.php/ppuser/3138/cat/500

OK so now I'm curious as to what everyone thinks of the tank, the lighting change and what the next steps should be. Hopefully you can see the space I still have in the tank and also the brown algae I'm getting (diatoms??). I still haven't gotten my test kit but it should be here any day. Then I'll test my water. Supposing the water is OK - what next? Clean up crew? More LR? RO/DI? My eventual goal is a full blown reef tank with clowns and an anemanoe being the next "large" living additions (if you dont count LR if I should even do that....). Any advice is gladly accepted. Thanks again!!

 

[Little Luey]

If you want to add more rock you will have to cure it on a separet container, not in the tank because of the ammonia and all. Which brings me to my next point, you already have fish in it so I say there is no need to wait to get a clean up crew if the tank has been running for a while. It is really not a new setup, is it?

 

[Barcochris]

If you do have fish in the tank I agree with LL you will want to cure the rock in another container till the ammonia is back to 0 you could add a clean up crew now. I really don't like crabs because they always eat my snails. Ireally like the Astrea snails I find that they do a great job in my tank. if you are not looking to use the live rock for bio-filtration (I am not familiar wiht your setup) you could consider adding base rock and as lon as it has been dry long enough just scrub it and add it, there should not be a ammonia spike. soon enough the live rock in your tank will ahve seeded the base rock and cover it all the little goodies. JMO

 

[swezey]

Luey,

No the tank is not a new setup - the guy I got it from siad it had been running 8 years. He said it was LR but I'm not so sure. I do have nice little patches of fuzzy red and green algae. But that has grown since I moved the tank. I saved all the water he had also. My setup uses an overflow into a sump (Mandarin III??? can't seem to find reference to this anywhere - maybe its old) with a spraybar and some bags of charcoal or something under the spraybar?? Again, I'm new to all this and havent taken anything apart to see what it actually is - it just runs...

So you think.... add a cleanup crew now?? The fish seem to be doing fine. Can I just get one of the "cleaner packs" from say Drs. Foster and Smith, acclimate it and dump them in?? Then what for the next steps?? Assuming of course the water seems OK.... If my well water is funky I'll do an RO/DI right away. Just trying not to go broke here. BTW, did you see the pics? What do you think?? Do I need more LR to do a reef? Thanks everyone for your input!!

- Bill

 

[Barcochris]

Do you have bio-balls or anything like that in your sump? Were is the bio-filtration? If not you need to make sure that you have enugh LR for bacteria to build up on. somewere around 1 to 1.5 pounds per gallon. Yes i would say you want a little more LR for a reef but it could even go in the sump if you like the open look, I did buy one of the starter packs from the good doctors I just do not like crabs anymore

 

[swezey]

Chris,

Well - good question. I have "bags" of I guess charcoal in the bottom of the sump. Is this bio filtration? I suppose there is stuff living in the rock too - how can I know? The guy I got the tank from was a rich older gentleman and didn't seem to know too much about the tank - he had a service come in weekly to take care of it (too much $$$ for me) so I'm figuring stuff out as I go. Would a pic or something help??

 

[Freddie]

Hello Swezey,

Sounds like you have a lot going on and it also sounds like you've been handling it well. My only comment is to read...read...read and then read some more. There is one book that really helped me understand this very rewarding new hobby. Go to Amazon.com and buy One book if you don't do anything else..it's title is "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" By Robert M. Fenner

It will truly open this hobby up to you.

The Best of Luck with your new tank!!

 

[Woodstock]

Looking good Swezey! I have posted a pic of your tank below... very nice.

I think you have enough rock and crushed coral to provide your aquarium with sufficient biological filtration. You will 'know' that your nitrifying bacteria is ready when the 'cycle' is over. Ammonia, nitrIte will spike and then fall to zero. You will then see a steady rise in nitrAtes. Keeping nitrAtes below 10 ppm is important... stay on a regular schedule for water changes! With your large diameter substrate, you will have to be diligent at keeping it vacuumed out since it will trap diterus very easily. Also, be ready to remove the damsels prior to adding any other fish since they are very aggressive. Keep up the good work!

AFTER

BEFORE

 

[jimeluiz]

How about adding some biodiversity from Indo-Pacific Sea Farm? They sell amphipods, good bacteria and other itsy bitsy critters to "activate" your sandbed. Look here http://www.ipsf.com/

I second the advice to read, read, read - while you keep asking here, of course.

 

[Little Luey]

Hi Swezey.
Sorry I have not answer your questions but looks like the crew has given you great advice. The term live rock is used to describe rock that has life in it but not only the type you can see on the rock; if your tank is been running for a while there is bacteria living in/on the rock, (this is your bio-filtration)this is why we say we like porous rock because there is more surface for the bacteria to colonize the rock. So if the rock has been in the tank for a while you do have live rock even if you don't see any animals or plants on it.
So, for the clean up crew just adjust the water temperature and put them in. I like your tank and I think you could add some more rock in there if you like, looks like you have a good amount, I personally do not like to have too much rock because it takes away from the swiming room for the fish, specially the tang. I am more of a fish guy than coral but I do have a nice combination of both. I do not like to have a crowded tank. If you add more rock try a big piece somewhere in there, play around and see how you like it.

The charcoal needs to be replace often, depending on bioload I would change it every 2-3 weeks. Since you are starting out you may want to replace them and start fresh, you don't know how old they may be. I usually get the aquaclear charcoal and ammonia reducer (they are already in bags, just rinse and place them in) and just place them in the filter.
Also, you dont' mention a skimmer, do you have one? If not you may want to get a good one, not the seaclone please.

 

[Little Luey]

Oops, I just notice your signature and you do mention a skimmer.
Have fun with your tank.

 

[swezey]

OK well... first of all, let me say "thanks" for all the great advice and comments! It's nice to know I'm not alone in this adevnture!

Secondly, let me apologise for not being on lately. Been swamped at work and, well, the fish are lucky they are beeing fed, let alone getting any additional attention. Anyway, I finally got my water testing items and got around to doing a full test tonight. Here are the (unedited) results:

Temp: 74.9 degrees F
S.G. 1.026
pH 8.4
Alk. 300 KH (I forget how to convert to dKH)
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 40 :smck:

I don't have tests for Phosphate, Calcium, Magnesium, Iodine or Strontium yet because when I placed my order for the dip tests and refract I didn't know about the need to test for these. I know better know so I'll get those on the way soon.

I also tested for Copper since I don't really know the history of the tank and there were no inverts, corals, etc. in it when I bought it (remember that's the whole point of this thread - I want to add some of that stuff!!). Anyway, the good news is the Cu read 0!

So now what? I know the nitrate should be lower. Can I go ahead and add some cleaner crews or should I get nitrate lower first? I think everything else is OK right? And boy the fish are happy as hell and look like they are doing great. They are all getting big and chase each other around and play. It's really fun to watch! Anyway, let me hear back from a few people - and again all the help is MUCH APPRECIATED!!



P.S. I did an Excel file that lets me track all the above water parameters (except Cu - I figured I only needed to test it once if it was OK) and it has a cell for date and shows the ideal range for the parameters for a reef. There are spaces for six complete tests when you print it on 8 1/2" X 11" paper landscape. If anyone wants the Excel file, let me know and I'll be glad to EMAIL it to you. I printed out 5 pages which is enough for 30 tests ot over 6 months at once a week testing.

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Welcome, welcome, welcome!

I added the before picture to Doni's post.

I agree with the advice that suggests getting the water quality squared away first as this is the most important thing for your critters.

Precuring the LR and adding it slowly to avoid ammonia spikes, if that is what you desire for esthetics, is the way to go.

I also agree that you should wait at least a year after your tank has stabilized and matured to add an anemone. You will want to greatly decrease your damsel population for sure before adding the clown fish two or three months after your anemone has acclimated and stabilized to it's new environment. I personally would not mix damsels and clown fish.

 

[swezey]

Craig,

Thanks for your reply. The funny thing is there WAS a clown and an anemone in there when I bought the tank. The guys that moved it to my place and reset it back up said they didnt see the anemone. It was never seen again. The clown died less than a week after the tank got set up at my place. This was right after Thanksgiving. All other inhabitants have been fine. Do you still think I am looking at a year? This tank supposedly has been running 8 years. Please let me know - I don't want to do anything to jeaopordise the little critters or overall health of the tank.