new to salt and got to ocellaris and they're fighting on the second day Help!!!

fishguy4

fishguy4

Member
Anselth said:
Ooof...I don't know. Formalin is related to formaldehyde...You never want to medicate your DT, however, I don't see that either is copper based, so you may be able to clear it out with carbon. Hopefully somebody else can chime in and help, I have no experience with these meds.

What I would do is pull some of the water out of your DT to fill the QT. This does two things: It will get some of the medication out of your tank, and you can immediately put your fish into the QT, as the salinity and temperature will be the same. Take the water you're mixing for your QT, put it in a bucket or two, and when it's mixed to the right salinity, use it to replace the water you took from the DT. Then Immediately start mixing some change water for the QT and the DT. QT for ammonia reduction, and DT to remove the meds. Change as much at a time in the DT as you can. Don't add any more meds to the DT. **Don't mix the QT water and the DT water, empty the QT first, but save the water to mix to the right salinity.

A few things to keep in mind. You need a heater and a powerhead for mixing change water, the powerhead for obvious reasons, the heater to make sure it's the same temp as what you're changing out. Do you have your own test kits? You need, right now, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate.

Let's slow this down. Seems like you're panicking a little, and I'm sorry because I'm sure I didn't help by giving you more to think about when I did, though it was unintentional. I don't think your fish are in immediate danger, as long as you medicated based on the instructions - but again, I have no experience with the two meds you used and I can't say for certain. Do get your QT running right, match the temp and salinity. Move your fish into the QT. If I'm reading things right and you said they DO have ich, treat them there. Do water changes in your DT and the QT. Monitor your parameters. Make sure you top off with RO water - don't put salt water in unless you take the same amount out first.

While the fish are in QT, read everything you can. Ask questions. Don't panic. Go slow. Don't do anything until you are absolutely sure you're ready to do it. Moving too fast is the worst thing you can do in this hobby - and keeping your fish in QT for a little longer will not be harmful. While you may be worried right now, things will get better. Don't get discouraged.
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ya +1 on this. water changes frequently. try to get that stuff out of ur dt and try to get ur qt goin ASAP and put the clowns in. But chill, do some research next time just in case. ive been where you are right now and it REALLY is worth the hour or so to research whatever it is before you jump on it. Anyway you should be fine for awhile and good luck!
 
Z

zack879

Member
fishguy4 said:
ya +1 on this. water changes frequently. try to get that stuff out of ur dt and try to get ur qt goin ASAP and put the clowns in. But chill, do some research next time just in case. ive been where you are right now and it REALLY is worth the hour or so to research whatever it is before you jump on it. Anyway you should be fine for awhile and good luck!
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alright...I'm going to do a water change tomorrow after work, I'll also get the qt 100% by tomrrow as well. worst comes to worst I'll have to do a few water changes in the qt for a few days. I mean i think i got it out quick enough. all my crabs are still munchin strong and the fish seem happy. ill prob get some amonia reducing chems tomorrow to have on hand just incase theres a day i can't change the qt water cuz of work.
 
fishguy4

fishguy4

Member
well that sounds like a good plan. Good luck and i gope everything turns out ok! Saltwater certainly is a swing and miss kind of hobby :whip:
 
Anselth

Anselth

Well-Known Member
From reading about the products, I don't think they will do permanent damage to your rock and sand, though you'll only get the stuff out through agressive water changes. Biological filtration can be restored with a couple new pieces of live rock. Re-start your cycle with a deli shrimp. the old rock will be recolonized as long as the formalin and malachite are removed via water changes - so don't try to start the cycle again until you've done several large ones on the DT. Especially since you don't want to do any during the cycle (it slows the process down).

Edit: I say permanent damage because copper treatments will kill inverts and crabs, and can bind to live rock, sand, and silicone and leach out over time. If you ever treat with copper, don't ever use the tank that you do it in to house inverts or as a DT.

However, there's a wetwebmedia article on malachite green here that you probably want to read before you treat with it again. One interesting tidbit I got from that is the malachite is oxidized by exposure to light. So you may want to leave your lights on for a week or so to possibly help get rid of the stuff. Also, to ease your mind a little bit, here's some more from wetwebmedia on Formalin. The first letter seems to indicate it will off-gas and dissipate out. Just keep on the water changes, and things should work out.

As an aside, wetwebmedia is an excellent resource for just about anything you want to know.
 
Z

zack879

Member
Anselth said:
From reading about the products, I don't think they will do permanent damage to your rock and sand, though you'll only get the stuff out through agressive water changes. Biological filtration can be restored with a couple new pieces of live rock. Re-start your cycle with a deli shrimp. the old rock will be recolonized as long as the formalin and malachite are removed via water changes - so don't try to start the cycle again until you've done several large ones on the DT. Especially since you don't want to do any during the cycle (it slows the process down).


OK I'm gonna do a water change w/ em tomorrow and hopefully I'll have them up and running in the qt today. What should I get for the qt seeing as how it has brand new water in it and has not been establish and I have no bio filter just the carbon one that came w/ the kit? Also my amonia levels are still considered safe or 0 so I think that I got it out in time. My rocks however seems to have salt crystals on them as does pretty much everything inside my tank. Any thoughts on that?

Edit: I say permanent damage because copper treatments will kill inverts and crabs, and can bind to live rock, sand, and silicone and leach out over time. If you ever treat with copper, don't ever use the tank that you do it in to house inverts or as a DT.

However, there's a wetwebmedia article on malachite green here that you probably want to read before you treat with it again. One interesting tidbit I got from that is the malachite is oxidized by exposure to light. So you may want to leave your lights on for a week or so to possibly help get rid of the stuff. Also, to ease your mind a little bit, here's some more from wetwebmedia on Formalin. The first letter seems to indicate it will off-gas and dissipate out. Just keep on the water changes, and things should work out.

As an aside, wetwebmedia is an excellent resource for just about anything you want to know.
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Z

zack879

Member
ok not sure why my post wasnt' in there. but I"m going to do a water change this weekend on my main tank, get the little guys into my qt and treat w/ copper, they def have ich, what else should I put in my qt to help w/ levels seeing as how it's brand new and not established. Also my ammonia levels in my main tank are fine as of this am so I think i caught it in time to not kill my rocks and sand off but i may add another small rock just to make sure. Another question I have is how do you guys pour water from a 5 gallon bucket into a tank? itsn't it heavy? doesnt it make a mess? Also what's a deli shrimp and won't the crabs eat it? Like shrimp cocktail?
 
goma

goma

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
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There should be a sticky for this, it seems to be one of the most asked questions. A deli shrimp is a raw. uncooked shrimp from the grocery store.
 
Anselth

Anselth

Well-Known Member
I have almost always used a powerhead with tubing to do my water changes. Pump out into an empty bucket, pump in from your new salt water.
 
fishguy4

fishguy4

Member
haha i just dump it in from the gallon buckets my lfs sells. its not really that bad just dont like drop it or something
 
Z

zack879

Member
Hey that looks like a sweet way of doing it and perhaps someday I'll do that but for now I will top pour. It's cheaper. I'll do it the night before so it has time to dissolve and also get to room temp. I'll prob only do 5 gal a time this way it'll be easyish
 
lcstorc

lcstorc

Well-Known Member
Your ammonia levels are "ok" what does that mean? The only correct answer is that your Ammonia level is 0. Anything above that and you are damaging the fish. Get your own test kits. Do not trust the LFS. You need numbers no "ok" If you are going to treat with copper it is even more important. At the very least you need ammonuia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, and copper. Do not attempt to treat with copper without a test kit. It is extremely toxic. Put the fish and the Copper in the QT tank and do not use anything from the QT tank in the display tank and do not use anything from the display tank in the QT tank. You will need to leave the display tank fish free for 8 weeks while the parasite goes through it's life cycle. Do not put any fish in there of any kind or they will be exposed. Use this time to properly cycle your tank.
Meanwhile read the threads in the disease forum to learn how to set up the QT tank, and how to treat with copper. It is very important that it be done properly. If the LFS truly does keep all of their fish in copper, then I would never go there again. Copper is an extremely useful treatment and one of only 2 ways to treat for ich, but it is also very toxic and should only be used for treatment.
 
Z

zack879

Member
My ammonia levels are zero. The place has been around for 30+ years. I think my fish are ok. I will get a copper test kit. The fish are still in the main tank untill my heat gets to the right temp in the qt
 
sk8rdn

sk8rdn

Has been struck by the ban stick
zack879 said:
I can't add the water from my main system to the qt that has my fish in it?
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To set up the QT, yes. After that no. You will reinfect the fish.

If you use the same tools, you can put copper into the DT by cross contaminantion. Separate tools. No mixing after fish get transferred into the QT.

....Salt Changes Everything....
 
Z

zack879

Member
I just put my clowns into the qt or hospital tank. It's been an hour or so. The orange guys is doing well. The black one looks like he's not doing so hot. He's just sitting on the bottom. I could literally touch him and he wouldn't move. Will he make it you think?
 
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