NEw Guy with New Venture

[SeaCleveland]

In a nutshell, I had a 55 gallon salt water tank when in high school and when I went to college I tore it down and convertted to fresh for the simplicity of moving every year. Geez, that was back in the mid eighties and I have not had a salt water tank or the same Erik Estrada/mullet hair do since. I want to start fresh and I know the technologyu has changed. I had an extremely healthy underground filter system with dual power ehads and the carbon filter. I also had a diatome filter for monthly cleaning. All is either discarded or harborin spider nests in my sisters basement. I am looking at a tank at 75 gallons or larger.

I would also like to establish a feeder tank in my sons room, a twenty high or maybe an isolation saltwater tank.

First, I would like to know the pro's and con's of reef tanks in general. Second, is there better technology then having to grow the bacteria and having a biological settled tank? (like an all in one filter system) THird, a clown fish is mandatory (thanks to Nemo) what is the easiest environment to have them? Last, recommendations as to particuliar items to purchase. I have done a bit of shopping and research but most, as you know is biased to a specific product or method.

Please give a rookie some of your time and make some suggstions. Thanks in advance, I am excited to get this hobby going again.

 

[murkywaters]

too many more knowledgeable people here to help you than me. I'm just here to welcome you

 

[SeaCleveland]

Did some great reading here, thanks for the welcome......ah....FO is fish only got that..what is IME, Soft Tanks andsome fothe other accronyms used here? I fell like I am back in the Army eating an MRE while on BV talking about MOS;s and SOP's...

 

[sasquatch]

Hello SeaCleveland and Welcome to RS! Your going with a 75 gal, will it have a sump or just the tank? the old school undergravels are not the best way to start out if you intend to keep corals. My suggestion would be to try and decide what you want to keep and then we can help you with the sticky bits. Steve

 

[blue_eyes53813]

Hello welcome to RS.
IME. in my experience
soft tank- tank which is mainly soft corals,- mushrooms and polyps.

No undergravel filters anymore.. Use sand, lots of liverock and a good skimmer. I would keep the diatom filter to use once in awhile.. They can still be beneficial.

The pros of a reef tank. I think would be the beautiful corals, The amazing colors of a reef.
The cons, lol much more expensive than a fish only tank, needs alot better filtration than a FO tank, Needs more lighting. and quite a few fish would not beable to go into a reef because they may eat or pick at the corals.

 

[blue_eyes53813]

oopps forgot the acronym link
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/reefsanctuary-tips-tricks/324-acronyms-abbreviations.html

 

[SeaCleveland]

Okay, I did some more reading. I think we would like to have an anenome...geeez I know I butchered the spelling....clown fish..definately a panther groiuper, my old favorite, which means more then liekly a FO tank....so a 75 gallon set up, more then likely int he basement wall built in....so my filtration would be a skimmer? Is tha tthe same as a proptein skimmer/ THe only filter I need? With some power heads for flow? I did have a problem with green algae in my old tank and would not like the task of heavy regular cleaning..although I am familiar with water cvhanges schedules...I want to start off simple and easy..recommend what to start with?? Filter? Bottom type, and I am thinking the need for the trusty damsels is still necesary? Sounds similiar to the old days..how about a comprehensive test kit or recommendations for the a universal tester?

Fsh would be the clown, grouper, probaby a tang...with 75 gallon am I looking at an 8 fish population if all mid size or below? Recommendations of good habitats for multiple fish? I know it is asking a ton..working out the old cobwebbs from the smoke filled attic.

 

[SeaCleveland]

whats a sump? A tank below with constant flow? Sorry looking for info on it in the other forums

 

[saltwaterfarm]

Welcome to RS! Glad to have you. Great info given so far...
Damsels can get very aggressive so PLEASE avoid using them to cycle the tank. I'm not sure about grouper compatability... you might want to check into that. You will need a very good protein skimmer and a sump/refugium is really the best way to go to avoid future expenses... Do it "right" the first time and you will be happier in the long run... hope this helps...

 

[SeaCleveland]

Got the skimmer part, compatable to tank size..also answered fish q qith a 75 about 15 inches of fish total erring toward ten for safety..but what is a sump/refugium ? Is that another tank below the other? A good skimmer, heater..and I am assuming the sump flows the water?

also the name of some good test kits? How about some good starter fish? Recommendations for good ones? I am about two weeks out to build..whic means a month till fish probably..Thanks so much for the help so far..the bug is growing again..that old itch of driving to the pet store on ship days and hour drives to the best stores are in my future,..I can feel it...:whstlr:

 

[lcstorc]

Welcome to RS! Glad to have you join us.
You may want to re-think the anemone. At least in the short run. I would re-think it entirely and in fact have. For starters you do not want to get one until your tank is very stable. The standard recommendation is a tank at least a year old. They are very sensitive animals that cannot tolerate poor or fluctuating water quality. They are also very light demanding animals so you would need some serious lighting such as Metal Halides or T5. With a FO or FOWLR (fish only with live rock) you can have any lights you like since neither the fish or the rock require the higher lighting. If you decide to go with some of the harder corals or clams then you will also need the higher lighting and could get an anemone once your tank is firmly established. Just trying to save you some money if you don't want corals as the lights are rather expensive and rather hot so you need a means of cooling the tank if you have the better lighting.
The best and probably the most important equipment you can get for a FO or FOWLR is a skimmer. You can go with an in sump skimmer or a HOB (hang on back) model. For the an in sump skimmer I highly recommend and use an ASM. They are great skimmers in the medium price range. If you want a HOB skimmer then a lot of people like the Aqua C Remora and I have heard of nothing but good with those skimmers but have never used one.
You were asking about a sump. Basically it is a second tank usualliy in your stand. It serves several purposes. One it is a great place for a skimmer and other equipment to keep the workings of the tank out of sight. If you have extra room in your sump you can add more live rock there to keep your display relatively open and still have the recommended 1-2 lbs per gallon of water. You can also separate an area for a fuge which is a great place to keep macro algae to reduce the excess nutrients in the water and a great place to breed pods which are a natural food sourse for most of our saltwater friends.
Ok that is enough for now. Enjoy RS and don't be afraid to ask questions. Everyone here is very friendly and more than willing to give advice and share our experiences.

 

[lcstorc]

Ok I thought I was done but just re-read your last post. LOL
Get a skimmer rated for more water volume than you have. Most manufacturers overrate their skimmers. Most people say to buy a skimmer rated for double the water you have in your system. I don't think you can overskim a system and if you are like me and enjoy feeding the fish too much it can save you a world of hurt.
You ask about test kits as well. Generally people like the Salifert tests. I only have one Salifert test so far. I have used AP (Aquamium Pharmacuticals) for most of my tests, but I hate their nitrate test and have had nothing but problems with it.
Whatever you decide the most important thing is to take it slow. There is a saying you will hear a lot here. Nothing good ever happens quickly in a reef tank. This is very true. Take your time and make sure you do it right. You will be much happier in the long run.

 

[iluvzigz]

Make sure you do a lot of research before you actually start. This can be a great hobby, but it can be heart wrenching if your impulsive. Its hard not to be at first but you have to have patience. Now with that said.

You've started out good with the 75 gallon. If you havent gotten your tank yet make sure that you get one that is reef ready ( drilled with overflow boxes ) .That would be for the water to travel down to the sump below . If you dont, you will need a HOB over flow. That is if you decide to go with a sump (suggested) . good luck - ill be taggin back .

 

[BigReepher]

Pros and Cons: Reef tanks are kinda like women, beautiful and expensive.
The sand, liverock, good skimmer and lots of light approach works very well. Clown fish are very reef safe and a pair should do nicely in the 20 your wanting to put in your sons room. As for recommendation, I'm like most, buy big or you'll be buying twice. HTH

 

[boozeman]

:hallo:

 

[SeaCleveland]

Great info people...as for the research before starting out, thats what I am here for...I did have the 55 FO tank for about 10 years but that was eons ago and I have some great info on the new technologies. Did some more post readings in teh rookie gendre and I got some more questions..go figure..

A tank with holes for a sump???? I have decioded to go witht eh sump, teh tank will be through the basement wall and the sump tank can go behind..I still have my ol 55 but I think that might be too big...so I buy a "sump" at a fish store? Explain the pump to me and I definately like the idea of the functioning parts of the tank hidden behind it...

In a sump, you would have the sump filter and the bubble trap, got that..but in the photos I see other stuff..like ion bags in the chanbers?? Carbon? Please tell..

Neeed a good idea about what are good starter fish..and last but not least, does no anenomee mean no clowns? Am I roght in thinking small cavernouse areas are good enough?

Last but not least, with a skimmer and the sump, in the even I do eventually convert to a reef tank, am I in good shape?

THis place is the best, thinking back in teh 80's I actually had to go buy books and depend on less then informed pet store people...

What a great place...I will keep researching and checking up, and eventually share photos as the process progresses....

 

[lcstorc]

Sounds awesome.
I'll try for a couple of quick ansews before I leave for home. (I am at work now. LOL)
Yes you can absolutely have a clown without an anemone. They do not need to host in anything and can be quite happy without. They also can host in a variety of soft or lps corals. My clown hosts in a scrolling hammer coral and seems to be perfectly happy.
As for the sump there is no such thing as too big. The more area you have the more you can do with it. If you were to use the 55 you could easily make a sump/refugium combination or you can just use it as a large sump. The extra water volume is always a good thing. I am not by any means saying you need to have one that big just saying that it woukd be fine and actually a good thing if that is what you want to do. Personally I have a 29g tank as a sump and another 29g tank as a refugium. I wanted them to be seperate to give me more flexibility and allow me to isolate the fuge if needed for an emergency qt or hospital tank if I ever take my qt tank down. Yes many of us run media passively in the sump. Just another of it's many uses. I often run carbon and/or Phosban in a tray we built into the fuge for just that purpose. Phosban will help remove excess phosphates from your system and carbon removes contaminants and polishes the water. I do not run either all the time just on an as needed basis. For some good sump/fuge plans check out melvesreef.com. He has several on his site that have been adapted and used by many of the members here. Also check out our DIY section to see what others have done and learn from those.
With a skimmer, sump and the appropriate live rock you are well on your way to having a nice reef setup. The other major thing to think about for a reef is the lighting. Depending on what types of coral you want to have you will need to get the appropriate lighting. Fish are fine with just about any light. Soft corals are usually fine with a good amount of PC or Power compact lighting. If you want to go with the hard corals, clams or anemones then you will need the better lighting provided by either MH (Metal Halides) or T5 lighting.
As for starter fish your best bet is to look around on-line and see what you like. Most of the on-line retailers have a scale for how easy or difficult the fish is to keep. Then find a few that are listed as easy that you like and ask us about those fish in particular. I would not go the classic damsel route. Damsels are very hardy but they are also very agressive. If you were to get them you would likely want to get rid of them before adding some of the more delicate or passive fish and they are a royal pain to catch. (Trust me I did it. )
Hope that helps and please keep asking people here love to help.

 

[iluvzigz]

Great info people...as for the research before starting out, thats what I am here for...I did have the 55 FO tank for about 10 years but that was eons ago and I have some great info on the new technologies. Did some more post readings in teh rookie gendre and I got some more questions..go figure..

A tank with holes for a sump???? I have decioded to go witht eh sump, teh tank will be through the basement wall and the sump tank can go behind..I still have my ol 55 but I think that might be too big...so I buy a "sump" at a fish store? Explain the pump to me and I definately like the idea of the functioning parts of the tank hidden behind it...

In a sump, you would have the sump filter and the bubble trap, got that..but in the photos I see other stuff..like ion bags in the chanbers?? Carbon? Please tell..

Neeed a good idea about what are good starter fish..and last but not least, does no anenomee mean no clowns? Am I roght in thinking small cavernouse areas are good enough?

Last but not least, with a skimmer and the sump, in the even I do eventually convert to a reef tank, am I in good shape?

THis place is the best, thinking back in teh 80's I actually had to go buy books and depend on less then informed pet store people...

What a great place...I will keep researching and checking up, and eventually share photos as the process progresses....

Technically a sump couldnt be too big i dont think. The bigger the sump the more water volume you would be adding to your tank. The more the better. You could just even use your current 55 for a sump as long as you have room. No need to spend even more money on a sump that can be put toward lights or livestock. You can modify your existing 55 with acrilic dividers for each chamber in the sump. One for your skimmer, one for a refugium, a couple of bubble chambers and a n area for your return pump.Unless your choosing to use an external.

If you want to run carbon throw it in there.If you want a Phosphate reator..go ahead put that on there. Clacium reactor,that too. Its all up to you and how you decide to run your system for what gonna work for you. THers a million different good resons and things you can use your sump for . Growing pods, keeping a critter secluded from the rest of the tank Adding trace elements into the sump is great so it doesnt go directly in the display.

NO anenome no clown....NOT true you can have a clown . They will find somthing to host in.My anenome has takin a vacation (hes not dead) and my clown has taken a liking to my bubble coral .Some people have clowns hosting in all sorts of things. Just dont do damsels cause they have a tendency of being very aggressive and hard to catch.

Hope this can help a bit..there are plenty of other advanced people on here that can help you a bit more in depth...hope this helps .

We def want pics when you decide what your setup will be. Dont rush anything .Dont be too anxious . Like big reepher said "buy big or buy twice".

Good luck Cleveland

 

[iluvzigz]

damn lynn..i wish i read your post..i guess i said almost the same thing..LMAO

 

[SeaCleveland]

"For some good sump/fuge plans check out melvesreef.com."

Okay I tried this web site and I keep on getting vacation offers for Florida??? Am I screwed up )as my wife insists) or is the cite down or the wrong address?

How about a link to that fish cite with the hardiness ratings? Tried the links up top and didn't see anything but lists of fish...

Starting to commence this weekend, picking up 55 and will start to build sum and fuge? Suggest how many chambers? Like bigger chanbers for the sump and return ont he ends, two bubble chambers dividing rest of space for palnts and stuff sopund good?

Yoou guys are really making this easy..not cheap, but easy..I will have to remodel the next bathroom and kitchen on my work list to get enough dinero to do the job complete...