New 3-Stripe Damsel Won't Eat

[LPS_Blasto]

New 3-Stripe Damsel Won't Eat - Needs A Bigger Tank?

I "rescued" this little 3-stripe damsel from a local guy. It was a craigslist ad and it was free. He said he was getting rid of it because it had matured and become aggressive - typical damsel.

I needed a fish for the 10g frag tank. It's the ONLY fish in the frag tank. I volunteered to take it off his hands free of charge. Thank you.

It's kinda big. About 2.5" long and maybe 1.5" high from belly to dorsal fin.

I think the guy had it in a dark tank because it's TERRIFIED of lights. It's been in the tank for 3 days and it just started coming out into the lights yesterday. It hides a lot during the day and swims laps at high speed when the lights are off. Very neurotic. I feel sorry for it. It just swims back and forth across the front glass and when it gets to the end of the tank, it swims up to the top and flips a U-turn. Heads to the other side and to the bottom. Gets to the bottom and swims up to the top rapidly. Flips a U-turn and heads back across again. It has done this all night long for the last 2 nights.

It has to be using a TON of energy.

It won't eat. I've tried Marine Cuisine (meaty kind for carnivores) and also the Marine Cuisine algae kind. Even tried some Ocean Nutrition Formula Two pellets (I know pellets are bad, but he needs to eat something)

Any tips? How long before he starves? :tears:

 

[DaveK]

Three stripe damsels will go a long time without food. I wouldn't worry too much.

A 10 gal tank may be a bit small for that fish, especially if it's been in a much larger tank.

The fish may have been kept on "junk food" try a few flakes or frozen brine shrimp to start him feeding. You could also try feeding at night.

 

[LPS_Blasto]

Tried feeding it at night. No joy.

It was kept in a larger tank. I think it was 55g. I wonder if it will adapt to this smaller tank? I feel bad now. The guy was gonna flush it if nobody came over to get it. I tested the water in the bag (from his tank) and the nitrates were 40ppm. Acclimated the fish for 3hrs in my tank. I felt like I had just rescued a puppy from the animal shelter - it was gonna die or get put to sleep anyway. Now I'm afraid it's gonna die anyway.

Look at this short video. This is what it does ALL night long. Now it's doing this ALL day long as well. Just started doing this during the day, today. Non-stop all day and night.

 

[Jeremy0322]

That doesnt look too out of the ordinary, damsels are intense fish, very aggressive and FULL of energy, they are like mean little squirrels of the ocean. I would give him a few more days to get used to everything and eat. If what you say is right he went from a 55 with little lighting and probably other fish to a 10 gallon with no other fish and coral grade lighting, thats a HUGE change for a fish and sometimes they take a while to come around. Try some different foods, use some additives too, I know that garlic made ALL of my fish go insane, not just the tangs and such. Also, you can try some live food, fish love that stuff too, all fish.

The other thing, and I dont know if this is an option, but its my favorite remedy for tanks that have fish that are questionably large compared to tank size, just get a bigger tank LOL but seriously, to go from a 10 gallon to a 20 gallon really only required the tank and maybe an extra powerhead depending on the light that you are using. The tank you can get for free on craigslist or a yardsale, i had like 4 of them at my house before I moved, if will double your size, give you more frag room, give them some space to grow, and your little damsel will get twice the swimming space...haha

 

[LPS_Blasto]

It's tempting to get a bigger tank. I have an empty 29g sitting here.

I know damsels are aggressive. Thats why the guy was giving it away and thats part of the reason why I took it. He was gonna flush it if nobody came and got it by Friday - so I felt like I was doing this fish a favor. Then I checked the water in the bag and I KNEW I'd done him a favor. 40ppm nitrates?!?!? I also knew it was going to be the only fish in the tank so the aggression wasn't a big deal. To be honest, I expected a little bitty 1.5" fish. This guy is quite a bit larger than that and I'm sure it's not happy about the new living quarters.

I'm just a little freaked out. I don't want it to die from the shock of confinement and now I feel kinda bad for it. Out of the frying pan and into the tiny box. :smack:

Like I said, I needed a fish to produce some waste in the frag tank, so a little damsel seamed like a good fit. The guy opened his front door and thrust a 1g ziploc bag into my arms - then he shut the door. :willis:
Uhhhhh ...... thanks?

 

[Jeremy0322]

From the description it sounds like you did the fish a favor, so dont second guess yourself. Look at it this way, toilets have 100% mortality rate for saltwater fish, so even if this little guy doesnt start eating and ends up dying in your tank 50% of the time you have increased his odds GREATLY, you did the right thing thats for sure. I mean, you already have the tank, thats the biggest part right there.

As for the tank, I cant actually tell you to upgrade, there are many factors to take into something like that like money and time and space and whatnot, but if you can I dont see a reason why not.

It's tempting to get a bigger tank. I have an empty 29g sitting here.

I know damsels are aggressive. Thats why the guy was giving it away and thats part of the reason why I took it. He was gonna flush it if nobody came and got it by Friday - so I felt like I was doing this fish a favor. Then I checked the water in the bag and I KNEW I'd done him a favor. 40ppm nitrates?!?!? I also knew it was going to be the only fish in the tank so the aggression wasn't a big deal. To be honest, I expected a little bitty 1.5" fish. This guy is quite a bit larger than that and I'm sure it's not happy about the new living quarters.

I'm just a little freaked out. I don't want it to die from the shock of confinement and now I feel kinda bad for it. Out of the frying pan and into the tiny box. :smack:

Like I said, I needed a fish to produce some waste in the frag tank, so a little damsel seamed like a good fit. The guy opened his front door and thrust a 1g ziploc bag into my arms - then he shut the door. :willis:
Uhhhhh ...... thanks?

 

[LPS_Blasto]

I just talked to my carpenter friend. He's coming over to help me build a stand out of some old 2x6 and 3/4 plywood I have lying around. It's gonna be an ugly stand, but it'll support a 29g tank.

I have a CPR HOB refugium and some powerheads for flow and circulation. I can seed the tank with some sand from the existing 30g tank. I got an old PC light fixture here.

This is dumb. :smack: New tank build for a damsel fish. :laugh:

 

[Jeremy0322]

I just talked to my carpenter friend. He's coming over to help me build a stand out of some old 2x6 and 3/4 plywood I have lying around. It's gonna be an ugly stand, but it'll support a 29g tank.

I have a CPR HOB refugium and some powerheads for flow and circulation. I can seed the tank with some sand from the existing 30g tank. I got an old PC light fixture here.

This is dumb. :smack: New tank build for a damsel fish. :laugh:

Not dumb at all, this is how you can tell if you are a true reefer or just someone looking for a pretty box lol That's at least how I look at it, always made me feel better about doing insane things for random reasons haha

 

[LPS_Blasto]

I'll have a frag tank as big as my display when this is all finished.

The PC lights probably won't penetrate all the way to the bottom of an 18" deep tank, so the corals and racks will have to be kept up near the top. But it'll work and the fish will have lots of room to swim. I use those magnetic frag racks anyway, so it's easy to adjust the height.

The wife says I can do it, as long as I don't spend any money. I got wood and screws for the stand. Got the tank sitting here. Got about 20lbs of dry aragonite sand. Light. Powerheads. 2 HOB refugiums here.

Not sure how to cycle the new 29g frag tank. I have some extra live rock that can be pull out of the existing 30g display tank. I might just yank the existing HOB refugium off the 10g frag tank and slap it on the new 29g frag tank. Would that produce an instantly cycled tank?

 

[Jeremy0322]

I'll have a frag tank as big as my display when this is all finished.

The PC lights probably won't penetrate all the way to the bottom of an 18" deep tank, so the corals and racks will have to be kept up near the top. But it'll work and the fish will have lots of room to swim. I use those magnetic frag racks anyway, so it's easy to adjust the height.

The wife says I can do it, as long as I don't spend any money. I got wood and screws for the stand. Got the tank sitting here. Got about 20lbs of dry aragonite sand. Light. Powerheads. 2 HOB refugiums here.

Not sure how to cycle the new 29g frag tank. I have some extra live rock that can be pull out of the existing 30g display tank. I might just yank the existing HOB refugium off the 10g frag tank and slap it on the new 29g frag tank. Would that produce an instantly cycled tank?

Sounds like a plan to me! Few things I would add maybe..

1)The PC's definitely wont hit the bottom, so the adjustable racks will be a great thing. Keep a look out for a small T5 fixture or something along those lines, if you keep looking out for a while I am sure you will find something going for pretty cheap, and you can justify it by telling the wife that it will let you grow more corals = more to sell = more money = free lights, its perfect math

2) I dont know if I would add the sand, I didnt when I had a frag tank, makes it much easier to keep the bottom of the tank clean thats for sure, but if you want it to look like another reef that you grow corals in then go for it, just something else to think about.

3) Here is how I would go about having the already cycles tank. Take the water from the 10 gallon and use all of that, along with all of the rock thats in that tank, and the Fuge from it. Also, when you do a water change on the other tank take that water too and use if for the new 29 gallon, that will get you atleast half way there, mix some new saltwater, and you should be good to go. You will still need to undergo the standard acclimation process because it will be around a 50/50 mix of old and new water, but you should lose no bio-filter bacteria doing it this way, so you wont have to cycle anything.

4) One other thing I just thought of, how does the hob fuge work. You could get really tricky and use the current 10 gallon tank as the fuge, all you would need is a small pump, but that depends on how the HOB fuge gets and returns its water.

 

[LPS_Blasto]

1) I'll be looking for a T5 fixture, no doubt. For now the PC will have to do the job and I'll just keep the corals up near
the top.

2) Probably going bare bottom here. I have sand in the 10g frag tank and don't like it. Is it still a BB tank if I put a
couple pieces of rock in the tank? Few a few pieces - 5 or 10lbs.

3) I like this idea a lot. I can even pull the HOB refugium off my current frag tank and just run it for a week with a
couple powerheads. It's got enough sand and rock in the tank to run without the refugium. I'd be sacrificing the
skimmer that is built into the refugium, but for a week it won't crash the tank.

I'll take my HOB refugium off the 10g tank and slap it right on the 29g tank.

The HOB fuge is here:
http://shop.aquatraders.com/Hang-On-Refugium-with-Protein-Skimmer-14in-p/43016.htm

A powerhead is used to push water up and out of the tank. It hits the skimmer section and then goes through a couple
baffles to eliminate bubbles. There is a large baffle in the middle of the refugium to incorporate a DSB. It holds almost
6" of sand. Takes about 12-15 pounds to fill it. The top baffle on the right side control water height and it just
overflows back into the tank.

Very similar to the CPG HOB refugiums. Almost a direct copy.

I have a 5.5g tank here that could be turned into a refugium/sump, but I don't have an internal skimmer here, so I'd have
to buy one and that'll cut into my budget of $0

Just had an idea:
I can build my tank stand to hold the 5g tank next to the 29g tank. The top of the tanks would be even, so the stand
would have to be built up on the right side to hold the 5g tank even with the top of the 29g tank.

The intake side of the HOB refugium is in the 29g tank. The outlet side is in the 5g tank.

Drill a hole in the side of each tank and connect with a couple bulkheads.

Now I have the skimmer in the HOB refugium. And I have a spot to put a bunch of live rock or a DSB in the 5g tank.

Problem is it costs money to buy bulkheads. I guess I could get away with spending $10 or $15 on a few bulkheads,
but it's probably gonna cost me some time washing my wifes car or changing her oil.
:LOL:

I'm not sure it's necessary. It adds to the complexity and cost of the system. It does add water volume though.

 

[LPS_Blasto]

I could plumb the 10g tank in, but it's got corals and rocks in it right now. The logistics of taking that tank and drilling it, then attaching it to the 29g tank would just be a nightmare.

 

[Jeremy0322]

I can probably save you 1 hole and 1 bulkhead, take the overflow for the fuge, use it on the 29, but pump the water UP into the 5.50, then drill the 1 hole in the 5.5 with the bulkhead and have it return into the 29 via gravity if that makes sense? You would need to have the 5.5 about 3-4 inches above the 29, but if you wanted that would not be an issue.

Does that make sense at all, elevating the one tank will let you remove the need to drill the second hole.

 

[LPS_Blasto]

Yes, it does make sense.

Another idea:
With these HOB refugiums the water level in the tank fluctuates due to evaporation. Water level in the fuge is constant.
It has to always overflow the last baffle to get back into the tank, so water level is fixed and constant.

So, put the 5g tank on the left side - where the INTAKE powerhead is. Suck water out of the 5g tank and into the HOB
refugium. The refugium overflows into the 29g tank. The water level is only going to fluctuate in the 5g tank now.
Basically, wherever the intake powerhead is located - thats where the water level will change.

Use 2 bulkheads. Connect the 2 tanks.

Now the water level in the 29g tank stays constant. Water level in the HOB refugium is always constant.

Only place the water level changes is in the 5g tank. Thats my SUMP!! :bluenod: I do my daily top offs in the 5g tank!!

 

[Jeremy0322]

Sounds like a great idea to me! If you need help designing any of that let me know, i am not too bad at 3D cad programs, so i can do virtual representations of alot of this ****. The rule most of the time is as long as you have something overflowing from the main tank it will never lose water from evap, it has to be the same length otherwise it wont be feeding it water, it will shut down, and your tank will remain constant. You can make a pretty cheap DIY Auto-top off thingey, I had one that cost me about 25 bucks to get set up consisting of a float valve, aqualifter pump, an extension cord, and some air line tubing.

 

[LPS_Blasto]

Cool! Thanks!

I'll be using a MJ1200 to power the refugium. Thats about 300GPH. I am afraid to use a 1" bulkhead because I'm don't think thats enough safety margin. If a snail or something gets inside it and clogs it up - flood.

So I was going to use a 1.5" bulkhead with a screen on the 29g tank side. The screen would restrict flow, but it would also stop anything too large from getting inside the pipe.

I've been looking at 2 Docs and looking at the bulkheads. I think I just need standard bulkheads - not double threaded. But how do you connect a piece of pipe to it? Do I also need an adapter thats threaded on one side and non-threaded on the other side? :help1:

How close can I put these tanks to each other? These bulkheads take up space. It would be nice to have a union between the tanks, so I can separate them if I ever need too.

 

[Jeremy0322]

Cool! Thanks!

I'll be using a MJ1200 to power the refugium. Thats about 300GPH. I am afraid to use a 1" bulkhead because I'm don't think thats enough safety margin. If a snail or something gets inside it and clogs it up - flood.

So I was going to use a 1.5" bulkhead with a screen on the 29g tank side. The screen would restrict flow, but it would also stop anything too large from getting inside the pipe.

I've been looking at 2 Docs and looking at the bulkheads. I think I just need standard bulkheads - not double threaded. But how do you connect a piece of pipe to it? Do I also need an adapter thats threaded on one side and non-threaded on the other side? :help1:

How close can I put these tanks to each other? These bulkheads take up space. It would be nice to have a union between the tanks, so I can separate them if I ever need too.

Standard Threaded Bulkhead Fittings

Those have slip ends that you can put the PVC right into, and then use some PVC glue and it doesnt leak, its what I have always used. For the inside of the 29 gallon do you want something like this?

I have it sitting here right now, the other person it was for didnt want it. All you do is silicone it on the back of the tank where the bulkhead will be and it does the same thing as an internal overflow deal, the bottom has holes in it but thats an easy fix with a piece of acrylic or something, and i can take the back off of it for you. Just let me know if you are interested.

As far as the tank distance, you can have them as close or as far as you want them. The union is a good idea, as would having an on/off valve, so you could put them however far would be needed for that. But like, if you wanted the tanks right next to eachother, drill the backs and not the sides and then use a few 90 angles to run the lines, and you could have them within like 1/2" of eachother.

 

[LPS_Blasto]

That would be neat. How much do ya want for it?

Thanks for the heads up on the bulkheads. It seamed too easy to just slip a piece of pipe in the end and glue it.

I like the idea about drilling the back of the tanks, but remember, the HOB refugium will be back there. No room to run
the pipes unless I drill the holes on the tanks all the way out on the ends and run a long pipe around the back of the
refugium.

 

[Jeremy0322]

That would be neat. How much do ya want for it?

Thanks for the heads up on the bulkheads. It seamed too easy to just slip a piece of pipe in the end and glue it.

I like the idea about drilling the back of the tanks, but remember, the HOB refugium will be back there. No room to run
the pipes unless I drill the holes on the tanks all the way out on the ends and run a long pipe around the back of the
refugium.

I didnt know the fuge was that big, so scrap that idea I guess.

As for the box, it was originally sold for 50, but make me an offer and we will work from there.

 

[LPS_Blasto]

Stand. Got most of the wood and screws to do it.
Will be constructed with 2x6 and 2x4 lumber. 3/4" particle board for top deck.
Quick, dirty and most of all CHEAP!
Will probably put one shelf underneath. Seal it with a couple rattle cans of clear.

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