Need a little advice on my HT and disease treatment.

[leebca]

Re: Apologies


The situation can easily get complex when there are deviations from the norm. The two deviations here that we know of were: extended copper treatment and the use of carbonate-based decorations in the HT.

The normal duration of a Cupramine treatment is no more than 16 days. You are correct: Carbonate-based things complex with copper. You don't want these things in a treatment tank. But even if these dead corals and/or rocks were not there during the copper treatment, they do pose unnecessary obstacles and potential danger to a 'dashing fish' which these kinds of Tangs are known to do.

Do you think it WAS Ich after all?

I have nothing to go on. We were brought into this situation after the photos showed the fish to NOT be infected with Marine Ich.

We can say this:
1. Fish with Marine Ich, treated 16 days with Cupramine, have a likely chance greater than 99.99% to be cured of the parasite -- under NORMAL circumstances.
2. There may be some abnormalities involved in this treatment and care.
3. If the fish had Marine Velvet and left untreated, it would likely die in a couple days. This parasite kills exceptionally fast.

I think we might sum up this case as:
In an effort to treat a suspected Marine Ich infected fish, the fish was exposed to a long period of copper and developed an irritation to it, that righted itself given time and reduced exposure to copper.

Carbon won't pull copper off the carbonate-based materials. Carbon only reduces the level of copper. It won't remove it ALL. Huge water changes are the final thing to do, BUT without the presence of carbonate-based things to hang on to the copper. Those carbonate-based items, if exposed to copper, should not be used again in a tank with marine lifeforms.

I think all this fish needed (at the time we were introduced to this situation) was time away from the copper and to get away from any source that might cause physical harm to the fish.

 

[Roots]

Ok thanks. To be clear though. The decorations are plastic, and non carbonate based. The Copper should not be bonded to to them. I understand that activated carbon may not remove all the copper from the tank, but it should significantly reduce the amounts. I will be doing several water changes as well to remove as much of the copper as possible. The HT will become a QT once the fish are returned to the DT. So, to reiterate, there were never any carbonate based decorations in the tank, at any point during the treatment process. Copper was maintained at the recommended level by the manufacturer. I do believe that you are correct that the initial treatment for Ich was extended too long thereby causing secondary problems due to irritation brought on by extended exposure to the copper medication.

Everyone still looks healthy and happy today. I'm hoping to start reintroducing all the fish back to the DT next week if they remain healthy.

Thanks again for your input. :smoking:

 

[leebca]

Sorry. I thought the question regarding carbonate-based items were related to the coral. The plastic fake coral should be okay. Before first use, you want to wash it well. Some plastics are better than others, but the resin based decorations are usually the best, once they've aged some.

I'm glad things have turned out. The HT to now be a QT remember is not suitable for invertebrates. Copper attaches to the plastic walls as well as glass walls, whichever the HT is made from. Often enough copper resides to still adversely affect some invertebrates. But for all fishes, the QT with the little attached copper, should be fine. It can be cleaned to remove that last bit of copper if you need/want to.

Good luck!

 

[sk8rdn]

I may be wrong, but I believe copper also binds with silicone, and I don't believe that to be carbonate based.

So, it may still have a presence on the plastic. I'd give that a good scrub or two with vinegar...

....Secret Super Hero....

 

[leebca]

If it's a glass aquarium with the silicon sealant, then that (sealant) also takes on copper. Cleaning removes the copper on the surface. However, the copper in the sealant is not easily removed. Some of the copper migrates into the silicone itself and doesn't come out with a single cleaning. However, no one has shown that the amount leaching back out over time has ever been a concern.

 

[Roots]

Good to know. It is a glass aquarium with silicone. I'll just use to for fish and not inverts. Eventually I will be upgrading my DT to a larger one, so down the road I can use my 60 gal as an uncontaminated QT safe for both fish and inverts.

 

[StirCrayzy]

60 is a bit large for QT.

 

[Roots]

60 is a bit large for QT.

That all depends on how big your DT is and how big the fish being quarantined is. I am planning on upgrading to a 300 gal in the next couple years. I may add some larger fish at that point. Larger fish need a larger quarantine tank. :smoking:

 

[StirCrayzy]

Somewhat agree, im not saying put a 10" trigger in a 10g tank, QTshould be proportioned to the fish.
60 is so big it would take a HUGE amount of medications to attain correct dilution levels.
40b is prob ideal, or 30L
but it needs to be small enough to stress a fish's sytem just enough to bring disease to a noticable state.

Maybe there is a proven fish inches/gal standard i dont know of yet (Lee? ).

 

[Roots]

I could always put in an acrylic divider and use it like 2 separate Quarantine Tanks, maybe a 40 and a 20. I have the 20 that I can continue to use a Hospital Tank when medications are needed, that way the QT stays med free and safe for all forms of life. :smoking:

 

[sk8rdn]

I like the idea of a 60 gallon QT... but then again, I may have the need to QT larger fish