Mysterious deaths

[carmexx]

Well, let me start by saying in the last week I've fished out at least 6 dead Demasoni's. I have had the tank established for many years and never had anything go wrong.
I have a 90 gal African tank with a CPR sump. Two Koralia 1's for flow and keep temp at 78-79 F.
Stocking list is :
3-4 generations of Demasoni...about 20.
6 +/- Kenyii
1 Large Pleco
2 syndontis catfish
1 rubbernose Pleco
1 redtail shark ....not by choice
6 Johanni

Ok....today I did a 30gal water change and changed my carbon. I put 2 cups of carbon in a bag and put in flow of trickle. I also add salt to my tank and added 1tsp per 10 gallons. The weird part is the fish are not dying from stress by other fish, or at least I can't tell. They just die. No torn fins or white stringy feces.i cut my feeding back thinking it was Bloat. I don't know. Maybe someone with experience can chime in. I appreciate any help....thanks!

 

[sasquatch]

cichlids hate nitrate, where they at?

 

[catran]

What size tank do you have? Like Steve said have you tested? What are your levels? Not sure the salt will help at this point. I usually put salt in my tank when I changed the water but would never add salt suddenly after any issues (unless you do this normally) since IMO, it can further shock and stress your fish.

 

[carmexx]

Thanks for the response cat and sasquatch. I have a 90 gallon tank. Today I am going to get a test kit...and test. I am more vigilant with testing my SW tank. I'll post results later.

 

[sasquatch]

Im amazed how fast they climb even at 50% a week wc, anything over 20 N they start acting and looking funny

 

[carmexx]

Well I tested with API test kit-

NH3/NH4 - 0.25 ( maybe from deaths )
NO2 - 40

Definitely HIGH results... what would my next course of action be?

 

[sasquatch]

water changes, water changes, water changes, water changes, water changes, add infinitum , all natural, low chlorestol no trans fats and no preservatives lol, just keep doing good water changes and it will all be good in no time

 

[catran]

How are your fish? I forgot to ask, what is your ph level. Cichlids are sensitive to ph swings (some are very sensitive). All of your fish tolerate basically the same Ph- about 7.5-8.4.

 

[carmexx]

Well no deaths lately...I do see some fish laboring breaths but so far so good. I changed the carbon in case there was a pollutant in the water. I didn't start adding salt this round...I've always had a brackish tank. PH level is in the 8.0-8.2. I'll have to post a pic later today.

 

[carmexx]

I was wrong...after posting this am i discovered a "floater".:angel3: Off to a better place...anyway i came home and found another dead. This time it looks like it was Bloat (White feces, stringy, and bloated stomach).

Here's my readings today:
PH 7.6 - 7.8
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrate 80

I think it's time for another water change....

 

[sasquatch]

Hi Ryan, you should change water daily right now, be sure to use enough prime to kill the chlorine, prime will neutralize any heavy metals in the water so go from the tap at the right temp, Id go 20 -25% a day for a week, have to flush those trates, now I see your tank I can only say that rock caused me MANY issues, its really not good stuff, constant algae issue etc from the iron

 

[carmexx]

Well today I started water changes...I did 20 gallons today and used a double dose of Prime. I guess you are right about the rock....I never thought of how the porus rock could trap debris. Although I don't think the algae is an issue.. I thought of it as natural food as they do graze on it.

 

[sasquatch]

Cyano/blue/green algae is very common in fresh water, not always visible to the eye HERE is an article on the poisonous nature, I always found that rock a great breeder of cyano

 

[carmexx]

Thanks for the link Sasquatch. I just left the LFS after getting water tested there too - They get the same results i get but they say my PH is too high. Is 8.1 - 8.3 to high for a brackish Malawi tank? It is off the FW test chart.

 

[Luukosian]

If you've had the tank established for years and have kept it that way then obviously it was working. Something happened suddenly to kill that many fish in such a short time......nitrates don't just pop up and start killing fish in 2 days unless someone poured half a container of fish food in there, or a large fish died and wasn't noticed. I do think you need to get them lower, but I'm not sure 40ppm would kill freshwater fish like that.

 

[sasquatch]

"brackish" dosen't really apply to chiclids? you've salted the tank with the correct type of salt? The salt is to increase hardness, your ph values are fine 8.0 to 8.6 is fine even mid 7's are ok, Ive never used salt, I have a pail of crushed coral that I pump water through to maintain the ph and hardness as my water is so soft its stupid, like anything else big ph swings are bad news, for water changes I have a 140 gal container I age and heat my water in, you can go right from the tap but you have to add a dechlorinator and probably should be using baking soda for balance but you have to calculate correctly how much for your tank

 

[sasquatch]

If you've had the tank established for years and have kept it that way then obviously it was working. Something happened suddenly to kill that many fish in such a short time......nitrates don't just pop up and start killing fish in 2 days unless someone poured half a container of fish food in there, or a large fish died and wasn't noticed. I do think you need to get them lower, but I'm not sure 40ppm would kill freshwater fish like that.

Cichlids are a higher temp fish, higher temp means less available oxygen, less oxygen means nitrate is more deadly, elevated nitrate can be endured by many fish if its raised slowly but it still is a very clear indicator of bad water condition, if its over 20 your brewing trouble and add one other issue and you have die off, Chiclids are delicate fish

 

[Luukosian]

I'm familiar with that...I still don't think 40ppm would cause 6 deaths in a short time. Just my opinion I guess....in my town the nitrate out of the tap is at least 10-15ppm and no one seems to have problem breeding/raising cichlids with tap. 80ppm on the other hand...yeah then you have problems.

I could be wrong, not trying to argue...but I think there were other contributing factors as well that just pushed the fish over the edge..if it was just one fish its hard to say, but 6....(heater gone bad, ph swings, undiagnosed disease etc.)

 

[carmexx]

Well just an update....no deaths lately. I did some major water changes....vacuumed the crushed coral bed and plan on testing again after another water change.