Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

LEBO

New Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

I've had my tank set up for almost 15 months I think. I have approx 20 lbs. live rock and maybe 15 lbs live sand. All I'm using is the stock Oceanic Filter plus chaeto in the main display.

My first plan was to run a "J" hose over the side where the stock filter is located. I was going to have that come down to the ATS and draining into a sump/fuge which would hold approx 1.5 gallons of water/rock/chaeto and then over an overflow to a pump to pump it back up. So basically gravity would feed the ATS.

Another idea I had was to run a J hose down the the sump/fuge area. Then just run one pump and tee it off to run both the ATS and the other side would be the return to the tank.

But with the thought of power outages with and overflowing the main display I was starting to lean to a two pump set up. One for a drain and one for a return.

I want to put the ATS on the top shelf in the cabinet to keep it looking stock.
 

LEBO

New Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

ATS_setup.JPG

This was one idea using one pump. If I did it this way I would have the overflow in the sump/fuge area small enough that in the case of a power outtage I wouldn't run into a problem of overflowing my DT since I want to use a gravity feed J hose.
 

Rhodes19

Active Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

With what you have set up you can remove the bioballs without any problems. Consider removing the stock filter as well. If you don't clean it regularly, it can become a nitrate factory as well. You have enough LR and sand to handle the bio load and by removing the bioballs and filter, you will reduce 2 source of nitrate buildup.

Both your first and second plan for running your sump/fug and ATS will work. I would avoid using the 2 pump option as you will have to work to balance the flow between the 2 of them. Could get tricky. With your first plan, consider splitting the overflow from your DT using a valve. One line goes to the ATS and the other to the fug. That way you can control the amount of flow through your ATS if you need to, and the rest could drain into the sump/fug. The ATS can also drain into the fug or to the return area of the sump. I think your second plan would be the best of the 2. With your second plan you have more control over the flow through the ATS. With gravity, you can not increase the flow if you needed to. With your second plan, you can dial in the flow you need for the ATS and the rest of the water returns to the DT.

Your concern for flooding is a good one. There are a couple of things you can do to lessen the risk of flooding. First, drill a 1/8" hole in your J tubes in both your overflow tube and return tube so they are just below the surface or the water. When the power goes off, the water will siphon down until air hits the hole and that will break the siphon. Don't put the J tubes too far down into the DT in case the holes become blocked. Leave enough room in your sump/fug to accept draining water so when the power goes out the sump will catch and hold the water without flooding.

I think that’s it. If I missed something, I'm sure some one will jump in and make additional recommendations. HTH. :)
 

LEBO

New Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Your concern for flooding is a good one. There are a couple of things you can do to lessen the risk of flooding. First, drill a 1/8" hole in your J tubes in both your overflow tube and return tube so they are just below the surface or the water. When the power goes off, the water will siphon down until air hits the hole and that will break the siphon. Don't put the J tubes too far down into the DT in case the holes become blocked. Leave enough room in your sump/fug to accept draining water so when the power goes out the sump will catch and hold the water without flooding.

I think that’s it. If I missed something, I'm sure some one will jump in and make additional recommendations. HTH. :)


Ok now another question. When the power goes out and the J tube breaks siphon it does not regain siphon until I manually get it going again, correct? So then when the power goes back on the pump down in a seperate chamber in the sump will only pump water that is contained in there until it runs out. So then the pump burns up?

Either way the main question I have is that I have to figure out the correct volume needed for the size of the chamber that the pump is in so in the case of a power outage the pump doesn't overflow the DT.
Oh wait wont this have problems in it too? If I have the pump T-ed off for the ATS and the return to the DT then the pump would keep feeding itself so it might overflow the display.

I hope I'm making sense here, I just am trying to figure everything out before I start finalizing my build plans.
 

Jason1

Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

this is what it looks like if your lights are too close:

IMG_3061.jpg

IMG_3062.jpg


cant increase flow so im removing my reflectors. hopefully that will fix my problem.

SantaMonica,

I have had my srubber running for 2 months now and algae has started growing in my DT again...

I have narrowed it down and these are the main reasons why algae grows in aquariums:

* You overstocked your saltwater aquarium with too many fish
-My tank is def full, but my DT is 37 gal and my sump is over 20 gal. thats nearly 60 gal and I should be able to support the bio-load in the tank. also have 30lbs LS and 70+ lbs of LR.

* You overfeed your saltwater fish, uneaten food adds nitrate and phosphates to the water which fuel algae growth
-I feed once a day and sometimes even skip days

* You used undersized filters and protein skimmers when you set your tank up
-Scrubber is my only filtration and I clean it weekly

* Your light bulbs need to be replaced, old light bulbs shift to in light spectrum to a range that algae loves
-Bulbs are only 3 months old

* You do not keep up with normal required tank care like water changes
-I clean the screen weekly and do 1 water change per month

* You are not cleaning and changing filter material at normal intervals
-screen cleaned weekly

* You maybe over using additives in the tank, never add anything you cannot test for or are unsure if you need it
-I do not use any additives

* You are using tap water for your tank. Tap water is naturally full of nitrates and worse ye phosphates use reverse osmosis or deionized water instead
-I used premium distilled water from publix (food store)

* You use a low quality salt mix that may have heavy metal or other impurities in i that can lead to algae blooms
-I used IO, which i know isnt the best, but I only do water changes once a month as is.

Why is algae growing in my DT again? =(
 

nightfire76

Active Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

well now thats nastier the a dog puking and then eating it....dont ask how i know :lol:
 

Rhodes19

Active Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Ok now another question. When the power goes out and the J tube breaks siphon it does not regain siphon until I manually get it going again, correct? So then when the power goes back on the pump down in a seperate chamber in the sump will only pump water that is contained in there until it runs out. So then the pump burns up?

Either way the main question I have is that I have to figure out the correct volume needed for the size of the chamber that the pump is in so in the case of a power outage the pump doesn't overflow the DT.
Oh wait wont this have problems in it too? If I have the pump T-ed off for the ATS and the return to the DT then the pump would keep feeding itself so it might overflow the display.

I hope I'm making sense here, I just am trying to figure everything out before I start finalizing my build plans.


Hi LEBO,

You're right. My bad. Are you planning on using an overflow box or do you plan on having the J tube go directly to the sump? If you are using an overflow box, you will not have to worry about breaking or restarting the overflow siphon (won't need a hole in it either). Still need a siphon break in the return though. Do a search for overflow boxes and you'll see what I am talking about. I'm on some one else' lap top and can,t play with pictures. When I get to my computer tomorrow I'll post some pictures.
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Jason your problem is clearly no growth. Once that is fixed the DT algae will go away.

Start with this: When you have dark oily growth like your, you do no clean every week; you clean every 3 days. What is happening is that the dark stuff (from high nutrients) is blocking the light from reaching the screen, so any further growth dies. Until you get past the oil stage, your scrubber cannot self-start.

So do that, and cut feeding in half (for now), and report back in 2 weeks.
 

Rhodes19

Active Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

LEBO,

Here are the pictures I promised.

This box came from Melevsreef.com - Welcome!. He has a good diy page on the overflow.

overflow_box.jpg


Here is a drawing i found some where.

intankoverflow1.jpg


With this set up, you could use chamber 1 in the BC as the intank box, and have an external box, then have it drain to your ATS or to the sump and feed your ATS from the return pump. You won't flood your sump/fuge this way or have to restart a siphon. HTH
 
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Hi guys, I'm sorry if I missed stuff, I just found this thread. I tried to read it all, but gave up at page 12. (kids don't understand 'mommy time') So we're setting up a bucket style right now. I was wondering if I could buy a starter culture from somebody, i was hoping to get some scrapings or something. i would order from ia, but we have AG issues here. the stupid thing is that i just irradicated all the turf that was growing in my DT last month. ahhhhhhhh! the turf was bad it was everywhere and took forever to get rid of. it was rooted into the glass. i ended up draining the tank, putting the sand aside and bleach scrubbed the tank. then i threw the sand, rocks and livestock back in and kept the lights off for 3 weeks. i have never been so dissapointed to see a clear, algea free tank. HA!
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

You don't need seeding. Just rough up the screen (2 layers) with a hole saw, and it will have good growth in a week:

ScreenHoleSaw.jpg
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

RainerFeyer on the RC site: "My tank is 75g, 230W T5 lighting, about 8-9 years old now (was FOWLER for 2 years before that). I started a little more than 2 months ago with a vertical ATS. Very happy with it: 3 lights, 20W each, 350GPH flow. I added a horizontal scrubber purely because, by fault of my design, cleaning screens was cumbersome, plus, the size of the scrubber was not preferred. So, been running a verical now for less than one week (aside the horizontal) and all is well so far. Once the Horizontal is well established, I will remove the Vertical. Have been without PS for 6 weeks now! The change in the tank is just amazing! No more algae or cyano, and, the sps which [previously] started dying (probably from nitrates / phosphates/ lack of food) is starting to come back! Thanks for the idea, all of you and especially SM and Worley!"

Jauld on the RC site: "N and P have been 0 since installation. This is the only filtration I have on my aquarium and I do a 20% water change monthly. this [scrubber] one has been running for nearly 3 months now with 0 problems. When I first set this model up, I accidentally used a metal nozzle that released some bad metals into the aquarium and I lost a frogspawn. After that, I changed out the nozzle and did an 80% water change. been fine ever since. Before I installed this [scrubber], my tank was COMPLETELY filled with algae (almost no rock visible). I let this thing run and after about 6 weeks, the algae started to thin and die in the DT. Then, at 8 weeks, I took the rock out piece by piece and scrubbed all the remaining algae off. 0 algae growth since that in the DT, but the screen grows a TON. I have before and afters pics if you really want to see. I found that the DT [water] will start getting cloudy after about 2-3 weeks IF i don't scrub the algae off the screen every 7-10 days. This is because so much algae is growing on the screen that when it starts to get thick, the algae underneath doesn't get any light and starts to die, releasing the stuff that makes the water quality suffer. However, as long as I clean the screen 3 times a month (takes 3-5 min), the water stays clear as day. This thing is such low maint. and is the sole reason i'm still in this hobby. I was planning to quit since I couldnt get the algae growth under control."

Gowingsgo on the RC site: "I just added a ATS to my system and have found that it did reduce my nitrates down to 0. from about 5 ppm. I still use my skimmer but have found that I do not have to clean it as much, and that the skim-mate is much darker in color. I have attached a few photos of my new sump. I built my sump the way I did with 5 separate chambers. (1 intake from main tank) (2 ATS) (3 skimmer) (4 fuge with live rock and sand so if I need to I can also put stuff in my sump) (5 return to main tank). I set up the ATS not to remove nitrates but to remove algae from my display tank (and that is exactly what it is doing). I now clean my glass about every 4 days and I used to do it every day. This is not for everyone but I wanted to give it a try and have found that I am very happy with my results. BTW I over feed my fish and corals a lot so I was very happy with the nitrates dropping down to zero. I will most likely keep my skimmer on line. even if it stops skimming. I like knowing that if I get something in my tank that skimmer is there to remove it."

Av8BlueWater on the MD site: "In 2 weeks all my cyano was gone. I didn't have a huge problem , but it was there. In 3 weeks, nitrates were 20-30 (down from 40-60), 4 weeks nitrates = 15, then the first week I notice nitrates = 0 was about 9 weeks total. I started June 24, and Nitrate zero on Sept 2. It was a happy day. My PO4 here lately is .02-.03 (tested with photometer) but I also still run rowaphos. I had an area of GHA about the size of my fist a few months ago, and now it's the size of a pea, but it is still there. I'm also an overfeeder."

MyFishEatYourFish on the MFK site: "update on my tank. no waterchanges since completion of ats over six months ago with multiple thriving sps, polyps, and a softies. [DT] algae growth is slowed, though what algae does grow is much harder than normal because it is corraline and that crappy tough brown stuff. my plants, chaeto and small grape calerpa show almost no growth, unfortunately xenia grows much slower than i would like too. one thing that everyone skimping on waterchanges must know is to keep up on additives, coral vite, calcium, magnesium, stonium, molebdenum essential elements etc. the best part is my nitrates and phosphates are still undetectable!!! thanks santa monica for starting this great thread!
 
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Hey could sombody help me out please? I really want to make one of these but I want to be sure before I go out and buy everything. I have a few questions.
1. do I need any other filtration devices or anything else besides this?
2. what happens to all the debree in the tank does the algae filter it out?
3. are there any negative affects (cons) about using this?
4. has anybody made on for a power filter?

Thanks for all the help guys
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Need more info on the tank
 
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Need more info on the tank

its a 60 gallon tank that will soon be a reef tank. It has 80 lbs of live sand and I am ordering 40 lbs of base rock and I will have about 10 lbs of live rock for now. Right now I am running a power filter that is very close to a emporer 400. Soon to have metal halide lights this week running around 275 watts. If you need to know any more feel free to ask I just bought all the pipe and plastic canvas ill need so any help would be great. Also has anyone modded their power filter to run one of these. Right now I dont have any fish in it because its still cycleing.
 
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SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

do I need any other filtration devices or anything else besides this?

You will need more than 10 pounds of LR once your have fish and corals.

what happens to all the debree in the tank does the algae filter it out?

Algae filters out the Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which are invisible. Algea leaves food particles in the water, so your small fish and corals can eat them. Until you have a good amount of corals, you are better off filtering out the particles with your power filter.

are there any negative affects (cons) about using this?

Chemically, no. Physically, you have to build them (properly); if done improperly you may have water or salt spray, and lots of extra light.

has anybody made on for a power filter?

No. Too hard.
 
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

You will need more than 10 pounds of LR once your have fish and corals.



Algae filters out the Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which are invisible. Algea leaves food particles in the water, so your small fish and corals can eat them. Until you have a good amount of corals, you are better off filtering out the particles with your power filter.



Chemically, no. Physically, you have to build them (properly); if done improperly you may have water or salt spray, and lots of extra light.



No. Too hard.

thanks for all the help and yes I am getting more live rock. I just picked up all the supplies I need today and I am going to start building it when ever my pump gets in.
 
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